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Traité Niddah

65b

Étude de Niddah 65b

Étude de la Guémara 65b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : and he should clean the pressing baskets with ashes and water if they were made of palm leaves or of hemp [bitzbutz], or leave them dormant if they were made of bast [shifa] or of reeds, because these absorb more of the wine. And how long must one leave them dormant? He must leave them for twelve months. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: He can lay them aside from one wine-pressing season to the next wine-pressing season, or from one olive-pressing season to the next olive-pressing season.
הָעֲקָלִים שֶׁל נְצָרִים וְשֶׁל בִּצְבּוּץ — מְנַגְּבָן, שֶׁל שִׁיפָא וְשֶׁל גֶּמִי — מְיַישְּׁנָן. וְכַמָּה מְיַישְּׁנָן? שְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חֹדֶשׁ. רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר: מַנִּיחָן מִגַּת לַגַּת וּמִבַּד לְבַד.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara interrupts its citation to analyze the baraita: Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel’s statement is the same as that of the first tanna, as there are twelve months between one wine-pressing season and the next. The Gemara responds: The difference between them is the matter of the early and late ripening season for grapes. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel does not require a precise measure of twelve months, as the difference in time between ripening seasons can be slightly more or less than that.
הַיְינוּ תַּנָּא קַמָּא! אִיכָּא בֵּינַיְיהוּ חָרְפֵי וְאַפְלֵי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara continues its citation of the baraita. Rabbi Yosei says: One who wishes to purify the baskets immediately, without waiting a year, purges them in boiling water or scalds them in olive water. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says in the name of Rabbi Yosei: One sets them under a pipe whose water flows constantly or in a spring with rapid waters. And how much time should he leave them there? He should leave them for a period of time. In the same way that the Sages stated this time frame with regard to wine used for a libation in idol worship, so too the Sages stated this time frame with regard to matters of ritual purity.
רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: הָרוֹצֶה לְטַהֵר מִיָּד, מַגְעִילָן בְּרוֹתְחִין אוֹ חוֹלְטָן בְּמֵי זֵיתִים. רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר מִשּׁוּם רַבִּי יוֹסֵי: מַנִּיחָן תַּחַת הַצִּינּוֹר שֶׁמֵּימָיו מְקַלְּחִין, אוֹ בְּמַעְיָין שֶׁמֵּימָיו רוֹדְפִין. וְכַמָּה עוֹנָה? כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁאָמְרוּ בְּיֵין נֶסֶךְ, כָּךְ אָמְרוּ בִּטְהָרוֹת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara expresses surprise at this last clause: Isn’t it the opposite [kelapei layya]? We are dealing with matters of purity in this baraita. Rather, the baraita means: In the same way that the Sages stated this time frame with regard to matters of ritual purity, so too the Sages stated this time frame in the case of wine used for a libation in idol worship.
כְּלַפֵּי לְיָיא! בִּטְהָרוֹת קָיְימִינַן! אֶלָּא, כְּדֶרֶךְ שֶׁאָמְרוּ בִּטְהָרוֹת, כָּךְ אָמְרוּ בְּיֵין נֶסֶךְ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And how long is the period of time referred to in the baraita? Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Either the day or the night. Rabbi Ḥana She’ona, and some say Rabbi Ḥana bar She’ona, say that Rabba bar bar Ḥana says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Half a day and half a night.
וְכַמָּה עוֹנָה? אָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אַבָּא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אוֹ יוֹם אוֹ לַיְלָה. רַבִּי חָנָה שְׁאוּנָא, וְאָמְרִי לַהּ רַבִּי חָנָה בַּר שְׁאוּנָא, אָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חַנָּה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: חֲצִי יוֹם וַחֲצִי לַיְלָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzḥak said: And the Sages do not disagree. The ruling of this one, who says either a day or a night, is stated with regard to the equinox of the season of Nisan or Tishrei, when the days and night are equal; whereas the ruling of that one, who says half a day and half a night, is stated with regard to the solstice of the season of Tammuz, i.e., summer, or Tevet, i.e., winter, which have the longest day or night respectively, so that half the day and half the night together amount to twelve hours. This baraita apparently contradicts the statement of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, who says that the woman may attribute the blood to her hymen for a night and half the day.
וְאָמַר רַב שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר רַב יִצְחָק: וְלָא פְּלִיגִי — הָא בִּתְקוּפַת נִיסָן וְתִשְׁרִי, הָא בִּתְקוּפַת תַּמּוּז וְטֵבֵת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara answers: Here too, one can say with regard to a menstruating woman that he meant half a day and half a night. The Gemara raises a difficulty. But Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said a night and half a day. The Gemara clarifies: Rather, this is what Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel meant: Either a night during Nisan or Tishrei, which is twelve hours, or half a day and half a night during Tevet or Tammuz, which also equals twelve hours.
הָכָא נָמֵי, אֵימָא גַּבֵּי נִדָּה חֲצִי יוֹם וַחֲצִי לַיְלָה! וְהָא ״לַיְלָה וַחֲצִי יוֹם״ קָאָמַר! אֶלָּא: אִי לַיְלָה דְּנִיסָן וְתִשְׁרִי, אִי חֲצִי יוֹם וַחֲצִי לַיְלָה דְּטֵבֵת וְתַמּוּז.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you wish, say instead: With regard to the purity of wine, a period is twelve hours. But in the case of marriage the time frame is different, due to the marriage contract, which is signed before the marriage is consummated, as there are those who delay for a lengthy period until they complete and sign it. Consequently, the Sages extended the period in this case to a night and half a day.
וְאִיבָּעֵית אֵימָא: שָׁאנֵי כְּתוּבָּה — דְּמַגְּהִי בַּהּ טְפֵי, עַד דְּחָתְמִי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Although the mishna provides a certain period of time for both a minor and a young woman during which they may attribute any blood to the torn hymen, nevertheless Rav and Shmuel both say that the halakha is that the groom engages in relations that consummate a marriage, which are a mitzva, and then he separates from his wife.
רָב וּשְׁמוּאֵל דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ: הֲלָכָה — בּוֹעֵל בְּעִילַת מִצְוָה, וּפוֹרֵשׁ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Ḥisda raises an objection from the baraita: There was an incident involving a virgin who married, and Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi gave her four nights to engage in intercourse within twelve months of her wedding. This indicates that the husband does not have to separate from his wife immediately after the first act of intercourse is completed.
מֵתִיב רַב חִסְדָּא: מַעֲשֶׂה וְנָתַן לָהּ רַבִּי אַרְבָּעָה לֵילוֹת מִתּוֹךְ שְׁנֵים עָשָׂר חֹדֶשׁ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava said to Rav Ḥisda: Why do I need to search for a refutation from a baraita, which is not necessarily known by all? One can raise a difficulty from an explicit statement of the mishna, which states that the first blood a woman sees on her wedding night is attributed to her torn hymen. The Gemara explains that Rav Ḥisda raises his objection from the baraita, as he holds that a practical incident ruled upon by a Sage is a preferable source.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא: הַדּוֹרֵי אַפִּירְכָא לְמָה לִי? אוֹתֵיב מִמַּתְנִיתִין! הוּא סָבַר: מַעֲשֶׂה רַב.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara returns to the objection: In any case, this baraita is difficult for Rav and Shmuel. The Gemara answers that they acted in accordance with the opinion attributed to our Sages, as it is taught in a baraita: Our Sages returned and were counted again, i.e., they voted and decided, that the groom engages in relations that consummate a marriage, which are a mitzva, and subsequently he separates from his wife.
מִכׇּל מָקוֹם, לְרַב וּשְׁמוּאֵל קַשְׁיָא! אִינְהוּ דַּעֲבַדוּ כְּרַבּוֹתֵינוּ, דְּתַנְיָא: רַבּוֹתֵינוּ חָזְרוּ וְנִמְנוּ — בּוֹעֵל בְּעִילַת מִצְוָה וּפוֹרֵשׁ.
Niddah 65b
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