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Traité Niddah

58b

Étude de Niddah 58b

Étude de la Mishna & Guémara 58b

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: In what way is this case different from that which is taught in a baraita: With regard to two women who were occupied with one slaughtered bird, and the bird contained only an amount of blood capable of producing a stain as big as a sela coin, and blood the size of a sela was found on this woman and blood the size of a sela was found on that woman, they are both impure, despite the fact that the blood of one of them can be attributed to the bird. Likewise, in the case of Rav Sheshet the lender should be impure as well, as she might not have examined the robe properly. The Gemara answers: There it is different, as there is an additional sela.
מַאי שְׁנָא מֵהָא דְּתַנְיָא: שְׁתֵּי נָשִׁים שֶׁנִּתְעַסְּקוּ בְּצִפּוֹר אֶחָד, וְאֵין בּוֹ אֶלָּא כְּסֶלַע דָּם, וְנִמְצָא כְּסֶלַע עַל זוֹ וּכְסֶלַע עַל זוֹ — שְׁתֵּיהֶן טְמֵאוֹת? שָׁאנֵי הָתָם דְּאִיכָּא סֶלַע יַתִּירָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Sages taught in a baraita: In the case of a woman who wore three robes, one on top of the other, that had been examined by her for blood stains, and she subsequently found a stain on one of the robes, if she can attribute the blood on the robe to an external source, she may attribute it to that source, and she is pure. And this is the halakha even if the stain was on the lower robe, closest to her skin. But if she cannot reasonably attribute the blood to an external factor she may not attribute it to an external factor, and she is impure, and this is the halakha even if the stain was on the upper robe.
תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: לָבְשָׁה שְׁלֹשָׁה חֲלוּקוֹת הַבְּדוּקִין לָהּ, אִם יְכוֹלָה לִתְלוֹת — תּוֹלָה, וַאֲפִילּוּ בַּתַּחְתּוֹן. אֵין יְכוֹלָה לִתְלוֹת — אֵינָהּ תּוֹלָה, וַאֲפִילּוּ בָּעֶלְיוֹן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita elaborates: How so? If she passed through a marketplace of butchers, where blood could have sprayed on her clothes, she may attribute a stain on her garment to the butchers and she is pure, even if the stain was on the lower robe. If she did not pass through a marketplace of butchers or anywhere else with a lot of blood, then even if the stain was on the upper robe she may not attribute the blood to an external source and she is impure.
כֵּיצַד? עָבְרָה בְּשׁוּק שֶׁל טַבָּחִים — תּוֹלָה אֲפִילּוּ בַּתַּחְתּוֹן; לֹא עָבְרָה בְּשׁוּק שֶׁל טַבָּחִים — אַף בָּעֶלְיוֹן אֵינָהּ תּוֹלָה.
Mishna 1
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : MISHNA: And a woman who discovers a blood stain on her body or her garment may attribute its existence to any matter to which she can attribute it: If she slaughtered a domesticated animal, an undomesticated animal, or a bird; or if she was occupied with the removal of blood stains from the garments of other women or from her own garment, from any source, such as blood that originated from a wound elsewhere on her body or even her own menstrual blood from a prior menstrual cycle; or if she sat alongside others who were occupied with removing blood stains; or if she killed a louse; in all of these cases, that woman may attribute the blood stain to it.
מַתְנִי' וְתוֹלָה בְּכׇל דָּבָר שֶׁהִיא יְכוֹלָה לִתְלוֹת. שָׁחֲטָה בְּהֵמָה, חַיָּה וָעוֹף, נִתְעַסְּקָה בִּכְתָמִים, אוֹ שֶׁיָּשְׁבָה בְּצַד הָעֲסוּקִין בָּהֶן, הָרְגָה מַאֲכוֹלֶת — הֲרֵי זוֹ תּוֹלָה בָּהּ.(משנה)
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : How large a stain may a woman attribute to a louse? Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus says: It can be up to the area of a split bean. And she may attribute the stain to a louse even if she does not remember that she killed it. And she may attribute the blood stain to her son or to her husband in a case where one of them is near her and has a wound. Furthermore, if the woman herself has a wound, even if the wound scabbed over and is no longer bleeding, but it can reopen and bleed, that woman may attribute the blood stain to that wound.
עַד כַּמָּה תּוֹלָה? רַבִּי חֲנִינָא בֶּן אַנְטִיגְנוֹס אוֹמֵר: עַד כִּגְרִיס שֶׁל פּוֹל, וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁלֹּא הָרְגָה. וְתוֹלָה בִּבְנָהּ אוֹ בְּבַעְלָהּ אִם יֵשׁ בָּהּ מַכָּה, וְהִיא יְכוֹלָה לְהִגָּלֵעַ וּלְהוֹצִיא דָּם — הֲרֵי זוֹ תּוֹלָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : There was an incident involving one woman who came before Rabbi Akiva. She said to him: I saw a blood stain. Rabbi Akiva said to her: Perhaps there was a wound on your body? She said to him: Yes, there was a wound and it healed. He said to her: Was it perhaps a wound that could reopen and bleed? She said to him: Yes it was. And Rabbi Akiva deemed her ritually pure.
מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאִשָּׁה אַחַת שֶׁבָּאת לִפְנֵי רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא, אָמְרָה לוֹ: רָאִיתִי כֶּתֶם. אָמַר לָהּ: שֶׁמָּא מַכָּה הָיְתָה בִּיךְ? אָמְרָה לוֹ: הֵן. וְחָיְתָה, אָמַר לָהּ: שֶׁמָּא יְכוֹלָה לְהִגָּלֵעַ וּלְהוֹצִיא דָּם? אָמְרָה לוֹ: הֵן. וְטִהֲרָהּ רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Akiva saw his students looking at each other, wondering why he ruled leniently in this case. Rabbi Akiva said to them: What in this matter is difficult in your eyes? The reason I ruled this way is that the Sages did not state the matter of the impurity of blood stains in order to be stringent; rather, they instituted this impurity in order to be lenient, as it is stated: “And if a woman has an issue, and her issue in her flesh shall be blood” (Leviticus 15:19), from which it is derived that by Torah law, “blood” deems her impure, but not a stain. Impurity from a blood stain was instituted by the Sages, and they rule leniently in any case where the stain can be attributed to another source.
רָאָה תַּלְמִידָיו מִסְתַּכְּלִין זֶה בָּזֶה, אָמַר לָהֶם: מָה הַדָּבָר קָשֶׁה בְּעֵינֵיכֶם? שֶׁלֹּא אָמְרוּ חֲכָמִים הַדָּבָר לְהַחְמִיר אֶלָּא לְהָקֵל, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וְאִשָּׁה כִּי תִהְיֶה זָבָה דָּם יִהְיֶה זֹבָהּ בִּבְשָׂרָהּ״ — ״דָּם״ וְלֹא כֶּתֶם.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : With regard to an examination cloth that was placed beneath the pillow and blood was found on the cloth, and it is unclear whether it is the blood of an examination or the blood of a louse that was crushed beneath it, if the stain is round the woman is ritually pure, as an examination to determine whether a woman is menstruating would not leave a round stain. If the stain is elongated the woman is ritually impure; this is the statement of Rabbi Eliezer, son of Rabbi Tzadok.
עֵד שֶׁהוּא נָתוּן תַּחַת הַכַּר, וְנִמְצָא עָלָיו דָּם — עָגוֹל טָהוֹר, מָשׁוּךְ טָמֵא; דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר בְּרַבִּי צָדוֹק.
Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : GEMARA: The mishna teaches that a woman who discovers a blood stain on her body or her garment may attribute its existence to any matter to which she can attribute it. The Gemara notes: We learn in the mishna that which the Sages taught explicitly in a baraita: An incident occurred involving a blood stain found on a woman’s garment, and Rabbi Meir attributed it to an eye salve [bekilor] that the woman had previously handled, and likewise, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi attributed a stain to the sap of a sycamore tree the woman had touched.
גְּמָ' תְּנֵינָא לְהָא דְּתָנוּ רַבָּנַן: מַעֲשֶׂה וְתָלָה רַבִּי מֵאִיר בְּקִילוֹר, וְרַבִּי תָּלָה בִּשְׂרַף שִׁקְמָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: Or if she was occupied with the removal of blood stains from the garments of other women or from her own garment, from any source, such as blood that originated from a wound elsewhere on her body or even her own menstrual blood from a prior menstrual cycle; or if she sat alongside others who were occupied with removing blood stains. The Gemara infers: If she knows for certain that she sat alongside those occupied with removing blood stains, yes, she may attribute blood to this source. But if she does not know for certain that she sat alongside those who were removing blood stains, but knows only that she was in the same area as they were, she may not attribute blood to this source.
אוֹ שֶׁיָּשְׁבָה. יָשְׁבָה — אִין, לֹא יָשְׁבָה — לָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Again the Gemara comments: We learn in the mishna that which the Sages taught explicitly in a baraita: If a woman passed through a marketplace of butchers and it is uncertain whether blood from the marketplace sprayed on her or whether it did not spray on her, she may attribute a stain to the butchers. But if she is uncertain whether she passed by the marketplace or whether she did not pass by, she is deemed impure and may not attribute it to that source. In this case as well, only if she is certain that she was in a circumstance to which she can attribute the blood may she attribute it to that cause.
תְּנֵינָא לְהָא דְּתָנוּ רַבָּנַן: עָבְרָה בְּשׁוּק שֶׁל טַבָּחִים, סָפֵק נִיתַּז עָלֶיהָ סָפֵק לֹא נִיתַּז עָלֶיהָ — תּוֹלָה, סָפֵק עָבְרָה סָפֵק לֹא עָבְרָה — טְמֵאָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches that if she killed a louse she may attribute the blood stain to it. The Gemara infers: If she killed a louse, yes, she may attribute blood to it, but if she did not kill a louse she may not attribute blood to it. The Gemara asks: Whose opinion is expressed in the mishna? The Gemara answers that it is the opinion of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, as it is taught in a baraita: If a woman killed a louse before finding blood, she may attribute blood to it. If she did not kill a louse she may not attribute blood to it; this is the statement of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel. And the Rabbis say: Both in this case and in that case she may attribute blood to a louse.
הָרְגָה מַאֲכוֹלֶת. הָרְגָה — אִין, לֹא הָרְגָה — לָא. מַתְנִיתִין מַנִּי? רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל הִיא, דְּתַנְיָא: הָרְגָה — תּוֹלָה, לֹא הָרְגָה — אֵינָהּ תּוֹלָה, דִּבְרֵי רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל. וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים: בֵּין כָּךְ וּבֵין כָּךְ תּוֹלָה.
Niddah 58b
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