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Traité Niddah

42b

Étude de Niddah 42b

Étude de la Guémara 42b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yirmeya elaborates: There, with regard to the impurity contracted by swallowing an unslaughtered bird carcass, this unusual type of impurity does not have an equivalent form of impurity outside, since if one merely touches an unslaughtered bird carcass, he and his garments remain pure. By contrast, here, with regard to the blood of a woman after childbirth, let it become impure only when it emerges outside her body, like all other items that impart impurity by contact once they are no longer encapsulated. Rather, due to this difficulty one must explain that here too, Rabbi Zeira is referring to a case where the blood emerged outside her body after her immersion; otherwise she remains pure.
הָתָם אֵין לָהּ טוּמְאָה בַּחוּץ, הָכָא כִּי נָפֵיק לְבָרַאי לִיטַמֵּי! הָכָא נָמֵי כְּשֶׁיָּצָא לַחוּץ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: If the reason that the woman is pure is that the blood emerged outside her body, what is the purpose of stating this halakha? Certainly, this blood renders the woman impure upon contact. The Gemara answers that this ruling is necessary, lest you say: Since the woman’s immersion is effective for any blood that is inside her, i.e., it prevents that blood from rendering her impure, let it also be effective for this blood, which did not leave her body until after the immersion. Therefore, Rabbi Zeira teaches us that this is not the halakha.
אִי יָצָא לַחוּץ — מַאי לְמֵימְרָא? מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא: מִגּוֹ דְּמַהֲנֵי טְבִילָה לְדָם דְּאִיכָּא גַּוַּאי, תַּהֲנֵי נָמֵי לְהַאי — קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara objects: We have resolved our halakha, the statement of Rabbi Zeira, but the difficulty remains with regard to the case of a woman after childbirth. In light of the explanation of Rabbi Zeira’s opinion, the baraita cited at the beginning of the discussion, which states that a woman after childbirth becomes impure by blood that is still inside her body, cannot be interpreted in accordance with his opinion, as Rabbi Zeira maintains that the blood does not render her impure unless it emerges outside her body. Accordingly, the original difficulty remains: If the baraita is referring to blood that she discharges in her days of menstruation, then she is a menstruating woman, and if the baraita is referring to her days of ziva, it has the status of ziva, both are which are already listed in the baraita.
שְׁמַעְתִּין אִיפְּרִיק, אֶלָּא יוֹלֶדֶת: אִי בִּימֵי נִדָּה — נִדָּה, אִי בִּימֵי זִיבָה — זִיבָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains: Here we are dealing with a dry birth, without the emission of blood, and the baraita is teaching that the woman is rendered impure despite the fact that no blood emerged. The Gemara asks: If the baraita is referring to a dry birth, what blood is there that becomes impure while still inside the woman’s body just as it would when emerging outside her body? There is no blood at all in the case of a dry birth.
הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? בְּלֵידָה יַבִּשְׁתָּא. לֵידָה יַבִּשְׁתָּא, מַאי מְטַמֵּא בִּפְנִים כְּבַחוּץ אִיכָּא?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara answers that this clause is not referring to blood; rather, this is a situation where the offspring put his head out of the corridor, in which case it is considered born and renders its mother impure, despite the fact that the rest of its body has not emerged. And this is in accordance with the statement of Rav Oshaya, as Rav Oshaya said: If a midwife inserted her hand into the womb of a woman whose fetus is dead, she is rendered impure due to contact with a corpse. This is a rabbinic decree lest the midwife touch it after the offspring puts his head out of the corridor and it dies afterward, in which case the fetus is considered born and therefore she would be ritually impure by Torah law.
כְּגוֹן שֶׁהוֹצִיא וָלָד רֹאשׁוֹ חוּץ לַפְּרוֹזְדוֹר, וְכִדְרַב אוֹשַׁעְיָא, דְּאָמַר רַב אוֹשַׁעְיָא: גְּזֵרָה שֶׁמָּא יוֹצִיא הַוָּלָד רֹאשׁוֹ חוּץ לַפְּרוֹזְדוֹר.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara adds: And this is similar to an incident involving a certain man who came before Rava and said to him: What is the halakha with regard to whether one may circumcise on Shabbat? Rava said to him: One may well do so. After that man left, Rava said to himself, perplexed: Can it enter your mind that that man did not know that it is permitted to circumcise on Shabbat, and he approached me to inquire about such a basic matter? There must be an unstated aspect to his question. Rava therefore went after him and said to him: Say to me, my friend [izi], how did the incident itself happen?
וְכִי הָהוּא דַּאֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרָבָא, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מַהוּ לְמִמְהַל בְּשַׁבְּתָא? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: שַׁפִּיר דָּמֵי. בָּתַר דִּנְפַק, אָמַר רָבָא: סָלְקָא דַעְתָּךְ דְּהַהוּא גַבְרָא לָא יָדַע דִּשְׁרֵי לְמִמְהַל בְּשַׁבְּתָא?! אֲזַל בָּתְרֵיהּ, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֵימָא לִי אִיזִי, גּוּפָא דְּעוֹבָדָא הֵיכִי הֲוָה?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The man said to Rava: I heard the child making a noise at nightfall on Shabbat eve, before Shabbat began, but it was not born until Shabbat. Rava said to him: This is a baby who put his head out of the corridor, as otherwise his voice would not have been heard. Consequently, it is considered born already on Friday, which means that it should be circumcised on the following Friday, the eighth day after its birth. And if it is circumcised afterward, this is a circumcision performed not at its appointed time, and there is a halakha that although circumcision on the eighth day overrides Shabbat, nevertheless, with regard to any circumcision performed not at its appointed time, one does not desecrate Shabbat for its performance.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ: שְׁמַעִית וָלָד דְּצָוֵיץ אַפַּנְיָא דְּמַעֲלֵי שַׁבְּתָא, וְלָא אִתְיְלִיד עַד שַׁבְּתָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: הַאי הוֹצִיא רֹאשׁוֹ חוּץ לַפְּרוֹזְדוֹר הוּא, וְהָוֵי מִילָה שֶׁלֹּא בִּזְמַנָּהּ, וְכׇל מִילָה שֶׁלֹּא בִּזְמַנָּהּ אֵין מְחַלְּלִין עָלֶיהָ אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § A dilemma was raised before the Sages: With regard to that place in a woman, i.e., her vagina, how is it defined? Is an impure substance located there considered encapsulated, or is it considered to be located in a concealed part of the body?
אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: אוֹתוֹ מָקוֹם שֶׁל אִשָּׁה, בָּלוּעַ הָוֵי אוֹ בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים הָוֵי?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains: What is the practical difference as to whether it is considered encapsulated or concealed? The difference is in a case where another woman inserted an olive-bulk of an animal carcass, which is the size that imparts impurity, into that place. If you say that it is considered encapsulated, an encapsulated source of impurity does not impart impurity. But if you say that it is considered located in a concealed part of the body, although the woman does not become impure by contact, she at least becomes impure by carrying the olive-bulk of the carcass.
לְמַאי נָפְקָא מִינַּהּ — כְּגוֹן שֶׁתָּחֲבָה לָהּ חֲבֶירְתָּהּ כְּזַיִת נְבֵלָה בְּאוֹתוֹ מָקוֹם. אִי אָמְרַתְּ בָּלוּעַ הָוֵי — טוּמְאָה בְּלוּעָה לָא מְטַמְּאָה, וְאִי אָמְרַתְּ בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים הָוֵי — נְהִי דִּבְמַגָּע לָא מְטַמְּיָא, בְּמַשָּׂא מִיהָא מְטַמְּיָא!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Abaye said: It is considered encapsulated. Rava said: It is considered located in a concealed part of the body. Rava further said: From where do I say this? As it is taught in a baraita: The verse states: “The woman also with whom a man shall lie carnally, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be impure until the evening” (Leviticus 15:18). Rabbi Shimon said: Now what does this verse teach? If it teaches that one who touches semen is rendered impure, this is derived from the verse: “Or a man from whom the flow of seed goes out” (Leviticus 22:4). Rather, it must be teaching that a woman who engages in intercourse is rendered impure by the man’s semen, despite the fact that the semen did not touch her on the outside of her body.
אַבָּיֵי אָמַר: בָּלוּעַ הָוֵי, רָבָא אָמַר: בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים הָוֵי. אָמַר רָבָא: מְנָא אָמֵינָא לַהּ? דְּתַנְיָא: ״אֶלָּא מִפְּנֵי שֶׁטּוּמְאַת בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים הִיא״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita continues: This is a novelty because the semen is a source of impurity located in a concealed part of the body, and ordinarily contact with a source of impurity by a concealed part of the body does not render one impure. But here it is a Torah edict that the woman does become impure in this manner. Evidently, an impure substance in the vagina is considered located in a concealed part of the body.
וְטוּמְאַת בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים לֹא מְטַמְּאָה, אֶלָּא שֶׁגְּזֵרַת הַכָּתוּב הִיא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And Abaye, how does he respond to Rava’s proof? The Gemara answers that Abaye would explain that the tanna of this baraita, Rabbi Shimon, states one reason and adds another: One reason that this halakha is a novelty is that semen in the vagina is an encapsulated substance of impurity, and another reason is that even if you were to say that the semen is considered located in a concealed part of the body, which ordinarily does not render one impure, but here, it is a Torah edict that the woman does become impure in this manner.
וְאַבַּיֵּי, חֲדָא וְעוֹד קָאָמַר: חֲדָא, דְּטוּמְאָה בְּלוּעָה הִיא; וְעוֹד, אֲפִילּוּ אִם תִּמְצֵי לוֹמַר טוּמְאַת בֵּית הַסְּתָרִים הִיא — אֵינָהּ מְטַמְּאָה, אֶלָּא שֶׁגְּזֵרַת הַכָּתוּב הִיא.
Niddah 42b
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