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Traité Niddah

33b

Étude de Niddah 33b

Étude de la Mishna & Guémara 33b

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Or perhaps it is because she was touching the semen, and if so she has not thereby negated her count, just as a zav does not negate his count if he touches semen.
אוֹ דִילְמָא נוֹגַעַת הָיְתָה וְלָא סָתְרָה?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava says: Commensurate with the sharpness of Rami bar Ḥama is the extent of his error, as this is not a dilemma at all, since even if one could suggest that a zava who discharges semen has indeed negated her count, one must ask: How much should she negate? If one suggests she should negate all seven days of her counting, this is untenable, as it is enough for her that she should negate her count like the man who engages in intercourse with her, i.e., like a zav who discharges semen, who negates only one day.
אָמַר רָבָא: לְפוּם חוּרְפָּא שַׁבֶּשְׁתָּא! נְהִי נָמֵי דְּסָתְרָה, כְּמָה תִּסְתּוֹר? תִּסְתּוֹר שִׁבְעָה? דַּיָּה כְּבוֹעֲלָהּ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if one suggests that she should negate one day alone, this too is untenable, as the Merciful One states: “But if she is purified from her ziva then she shall count to herself seven days, and after that she shall be pure” (Leviticus 15:28). The word “after” indicates that she shall be pure only after all of them, i.e., after seven consecutive clean days, such that there should be no impurity separating between them. If so, there cannot be a situation where a zava negates a single day, and consequently it cannot be that a zava who discharges semen negates any part of her count.
תִּסְתּוֹר יוֹם אֶחָד ״וְאַחַר תִּטְהָר״? אֲמַר רַחֲמָנָא: ״אַחַר״ — אַחַר לְכוּלָּן, שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא טוּמְאָה מַפְסֶקֶת בֵּינֵיהֶם.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara rejects Rava’s response: And according to your reasoning, how does a zav himself negate only one day from his count due to a seminal emission? After all, the Merciful One states: “And when the zav is purified of his ziva, then he shall count for himself seven days for his purification, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and he shall be pure” (Leviticus 15:13). The phrase: “Seven days for his purification,” indicates that there should be no impurity separating between them.
וְלִיטַעְמָיךְ, זָב גּוּפֵיהּ הֵיכִי סָתַר? ״לְטׇהֳרָתוֹ״ אָמַר רַחֲמָנָא: שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא טוּמְאָה מַפְסֶקֶת בֵּינֵיהֶן!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rather, what have you to say? The verse means only that there should not be an impurity of ziva separating between them. Here too, with regard to a zava, the verse means only that there should not be an impurity of ziva separating between them; a discharge of semen is not included in this restriction. It is therefore possible that a discharge of semen from a zava negates only one day from her count. Accordingly, the dilemma raised by Rami bar Ḥama remains in place.
אֶלָּא מַאי אִית לָךְ לְמֵימַר? שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא טוּמְאַת זִיבָה מַפְסֶקֶת בֵּינֵיהֶן, הָכָא נָמֵי שֶׁלֹּא תְּהֵא טוּמְאַת זִיבָה מַפְסֶקֶת בֵּינֵיהֶן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: But one who enters the Temple while wearing those garments upon which a Samaritan had lain is not liable to bring an offering for entering the Temple, nor does one burn teruma that came into contact with those garments, because their impurity is uncertain. In connection to these halakhot, the Gemara relates that Rav Pappa happened to come to the city of Tavakh. He said: If there is a Torah scholar here I will go and greet him. A certain elderly woman said to him: There is a Torah scholar here and Rav Shmuel is his name, and he teaches mishnayot; may it be God’s will that you should be like him.
וְאֵין חַיָּיבִין עֲלֵיהֶן עַל בִּיאַת מִקְדָּשׁ וְכוּ׳. רַב פָּפָּא אִיקְּלַע לִתְוָאךְ, אֲמַר: אִי אִיכָּא צוּרְבָּא מֵרַבָּנַן הָכָא, אֵיזִיל אֲקַבֵּל אַפֵּיהּ. אֲמַרָה לֵיהּ הָהִיא סַבְתָּא: אִיכָּא הָכָא צוּרְבָּא מֵרַבָּנַן, וְרַב שְׁמוּאֵל שְׁמֵיהּ, וְתָנֵי מַתְנְיָתָא. יְהֵא רַעֲוָא דְּתֶהְוֵי כְּוָותֵיהּ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Pappa said to himself: From the fact that they bless me through this Rav Shmuel that I should be like him, I may conclude from it that he is a God-fearing individual. Rav Pappa went to visit him, and Rav Shmuel raised a bull for him, i.e., he slaughtered a bull in honor of Rav Pappa, and he also raised a difficulty between two mishnayot that apparently contradict one another: We learn in the mishna: One who enters the Temple while wearing those garments upon which a Samaritan had lain is not liable to bring an offering for entering the Temple, nor does one burn teruma that came into contact with those garments, because their impurity is uncertain. Evidently, we do not burn teruma due to uncertain impurity.
אֲמַר: מִדְּקָמְבָרְכִי לִי בְּגַוֵּויהּ, שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ יְרֵא שָׁמַיִם הוּא. אֲזַל לְגַבֵּיהּ, רְמָא לֵיהּ תּוֹרָא, רְמָא לֵיהּ מַתְנְיָתָא אַהֲדָדֵי: תְּנַן ״אֵין חַיָּיבִין עֲלֵיהֶן עַל בִּיאַת מִקְדָּשׁ, וְאֵין שׂוֹרְפִין עֲלֵיהֶן אֶת הַתְּרוּמָה, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁטּוּמְאָתָהּ סָפֵק״ — אַלְמָא מִסְּפֵיקָא לָא שָׂרְפִינַן תְּרוּמָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And one can raise a contradiction from another mishna (Teharot 4:5): For six cases of uncertain impurity one burns the teruma if it came into contact with them, or if a person came into contact with them and subsequently touched the teruma. One of these is for the uncertain case of the garments of one who is unreliable with regard to ritual impurity [am ha’aretz]. Such garments impart impurity through contact and through carrying, due to a concern that the wife of the am ha’aretz might have sat on them while she was menstruating. Evidently, one burns teruma due to uncertain impurity.
וּרְמִינְהִי: עַל שִׁשָּׁה סְפֵקוֹת שׂוֹרְפִין אֶת הַתְּרוּמָה, עַל סְפֵק בִּגְדֵי עַם הָאָרֶץ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Pappa began his response with a supplication and said: May it be God’s will that this bull shall be eaten peacefully, i.e., that I will provide a satisfactory resolution of this contradiction. Since the bull was slaughtered in my honor, failing to resolve the contradiction might spoil the meal. Rav Pappa continued: Here we are dealing with a Samaritan who is devoted to the meticulous observance of mitzvot, especially halakhot of ritual purity, teruma, and tithes [ḥaver]. There is therefore less concern with regard to his ritual purity than that of an am ha’aretz. Consequently, the mishna here states that teruma is not burned on account of him.
אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא: יְהֵא רַעֲוָא דְּלִתְאֲכִיל הַאי תּוֹרָא לִשְׁלָמָא, הָכָא בְמַאי עָסְקִינַן? בְּכוּתִי חָבֵר.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Shmuel rejected this response: Since the mishna is referring to men who engage in intercourse with menstruating women, are you equating a Samaritan ḥaver with a man who engages in intercourse with a menstruating woman?
כּוּתִי חָבֵר — בּוֹעֵל נִדָּה מְשַׁוֵּית לֵיהּ?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Pappa left Rav Shmuel in embarrassment and came before Rav Shimi bar Ashi, to whom he related this incident. Rav Shimi bar Ashi said to him: What is the reason that you did not respond to him that the ruling of the mishna is stated with regard to a Samaritan who immersed in a ritual bath and arose from his impure status, and subsequently trod on the garments of a ḥaver, which means they are now considered the bedding of the Samaritan, and then those garments of the ḥaver went and touched teruma? In such a case one does not burn the teruma.
שַׁבְקֵיהּ, וַאֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב שִׁימִי בַּר אָשֵׁי. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מַאי טַעְמָא לָא מְשַׁנֵּית לֵיהּ בְּכוּתִי שֶׁטָּבַל וְעָלָה, וְדָרַס עַל בִּגְדֵי חָבֵר, וַאֲזוּל בִּגְדֵי חָבֵר וּנְגַעוּ בִּתְרוּמָה?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : As, if one would say to burn it due to the impurity of an am ha’aretz, he has immersed in a ritual bath. And if one were to suggest that it should be burned because the Samaritan is one who engages in intercourse with a menstruating woman, this too is an unsatisfactory reason. This is because it is uncertain whether he recently engaged in intercourse with his wife, in which case his immersion does not remove his impurity; and it is uncertain whether he did not recently engage in intercourse with his wife, in which case he is in fact pure.
דְּאִי מִשּׁוּם טוּמְאַת עַם הָאָרֶץ — הָא טְבֵיל לֵיהּ, וְאִי מִשּׁוּם בּוֹעֵל נִדָּה — סָפֵק בָּעַל בְּקָרוֹב, סָפֵק לֹא בָּעַל בְּקָרוֹב.
Niddah 33b
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נדה ל״ג במַסֶּכֶת נִדָּה