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Traité Niddah

22b

Étude de Niddah 22b

Étude de la Guémara 22b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : If they dissolved, it is blood, and the woman is impure; and if not, she is ritually pure. Evidently, dry blood is impure, as these items are all dry until they are soaked in water. The Gemara asks: If so, that dry blood is impure, these items are impure also in a case where they do not dissolve in water. Why is this examination necessary at all? Rabba says: In a case where they do not dissolve, this indicates that the item is not blood at all; rather, it is a distinct entity.
אִם נִמּוֹחוּ טְמֵאָה. אִי הָכִי, בְּלֹא נִמּוֹחוּ נָמֵי? אָמַר רַבָּה: כִּי לֹא נִמּוֹחוּ — בְּרִיָּה בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָהּ הִיא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks with regard to these instances discussed in the mishna: But are there actually cases like this? The Gemara answers: Yes there are, and it is taught likewise in a baraita that Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Tzadok, says: My father raised two incidents from Tivin to the Sages in Yavne for discussion.
וּמִי אִיכָּא כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא? אִין, וְהָתַנְיָא: אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי צָדוֹק: שְׁנֵי מַעֲשִׂים הֶעֱלָה אַבָּא מִטִּבְעִין לְיַבְנֶה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The first was an incident involving a woman who would repeatedly discharge items similar to red shells, and the local residents came and asked my father whether this rendered the woman impure. And my father asked the other Sages, and the Sages asked the doctors what causes this to happen. And the doctors said to them: This woman has a wound in her womb from which she discharges red items similar to shells. The Sages therefore ruled that the woman should cast them into water to ascertain their nature. If they dissolved, it is blood and the woman is impure.
מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאִשָּׁה שֶׁהָיְתָה מַפֶּלֶת כְּמִין קְלִיפּוֹת אֲדוּמּוֹת, וּבָאוּ וְשָׁאֲלוּ אֶת אַבָּא, וְאַבָּא שָׁאַל לַחֲכָמִים, וַחֲכָמִים שָׁאֲלוּ לָרוֹפְאִים, וְאָמְרוּ לָהֶם: אִשָּׁה זוֹ מַכָּה יֵשׁ לָהּ בְּתוֹךְ מֵעֶיהָ, שֶׁמִּמֶּנָּה מַפֶּלֶת כְּמִין קְלִיפּוֹת. תָּטִיל לַמַּיִם, אִם נִמּוֹחוּ — טְמֵאָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And again there was a similar incident involving a woman who would discharge items similar to red hairs, and she came and asked my father whether she was impure. And my father asked the other Sages, and the Sages asked the doctors, and the doctors said to them: The woman has a mole in her womb from which she discharges items similar to red hairs. The Sages therefore ruled that the woman should cast them into water, and if they dissolved, she is impure.
וְשׁוּב מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאִשָּׁה שֶׁהָיְתָה מַפֶּלֶת כְּמִין שְׂעָרוֹת אֲדוּמּוֹת, וּבָאָה וְשָׁאֲלָה אֶת אַבָּא, וְאַבָּא שָׁאַל לַחֲכָמִים, וַחֲכָמִים לָרוֹפְאִים, וְאָמְרוּ לָהֶם: שׁוּמָא יֵשׁ לָהּ בְּתוֹךְ מֵעֶיהָ, שֶׁמִּמֶּנָּה מַפֶּלֶת כְּמִין שְׂעָרוֹת אֲדוּמּוֹת. תָּטִיל לַמַּיִם, אִם נִמּוֹחוּ — טְמֵאָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Reish Lakish says: And this examination is conducted only with lukewarm [uvefoshrin] water. This is also taught in a baraita: The woman should cast the item into water, and this examination is conducted only with lukewarm water. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: The woman mashes the item with saliva, using the fingers of one hand on a fingernail of her other hand. The Gemara asks: What is the difference between the two opinions? Ravina says: The difference between them is whether an item is considered blood if it can be mashed by pressing on it, or only if the item dissolves by itself.
אָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: וּבְפוֹשְׁרִין. תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי: תָּטִיל לְמַיִם, וּבְפוֹשְׁרִין. רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל אוֹמֵר: מְמַעַכְתּוֹ בְּרוֹק עַל גַּבֵּי הַצִּפּוֹרֶן. מַאי בֵּינַיְיהוּ? אָמַר רָבִינָא: מָעוּךְ עַל יְדֵי הַדְּחָק אִיכָּא בֵינַיְיהוּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : We learned in the mishna there (54b) with regard to an animal carcass or the carcass of a creeping animal that dried up, which is examined by soaking it in water to determine whether or not it still imparts impurity: For how long is its soaking in lukewarm water necessary? It is for a twenty-four-hour period. The Gemara asks: Here, with regard to the examination of an item discharged by a woman, what is the halakha? Do I need it to be soaked in lukewarm water for a twenty-four-hour period, or not?
הָתָם תְּנַן: כַּמָּה הִיא שְׁרִיָּיתָן בְּפוֹשְׁרִין? מֵעֵת לְעֵת. הָכָא מַאי? מִי בָּעֵינָא מֵעֵת לְעֵת, אוֹ לָא?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains the question: Perhaps with regard to a carcass of a creeping animal and an unslaughtered animal carcass, which are hard when they dry up, we require soaking for a twenty-four-hour period, but blood, which is relatively soft after it dries up, does not need to be soaked for that long. In other words, if the item did not dissolve after even a shorter period of time, it is not blood. Or perhaps the examination of a discharged item is no different, and it also must be soaked for twenty-four hours. The Gemara concludes: The dilemma shall stand unresolved.
שֶׁרֶץ וּנְבֵלָה, דַּאֲקוֹשֵׁי — בָּעֵינַן מֵעֵת לְעֵת, אֲבָל דַּם דְּרַכִּיךְ — לָא. אוֹ דִלְמָא לָא שְׁנָא? תֵּיקוּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: In the case of a woman who discharges an item similar to fish or to grasshoppers, repugnant creatures, or creeping animals, if blood emerges with it, the woman is impure, and if not, she is pure. The Gemara asks: But let Rabbi Yehuda disagree with the Rabbis with regard to this halakha as well, just as he disagrees with them in the first clause of the mishna, in the case where a woman discharges an amorphous piece of tissue, as he maintains that she is impure whether or not blood emerges with it.
הַמַּפֶּלֶת כְּמִין דָּגִים. וְלִיפְלוֹג נָמֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בְּהָא!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Reish Lakish says: This case is also subject to the dispute between Rabbi Yehuda and the Rabbis, and the opinion cited in the mishna is that of the Rabbis. And Rabbi Yoḥanan says: You may even say that the ruling of the mishna is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda, as when Rabbi Yehuda says that the woman is impure even if blood does not emerge, it is only there, in the case of an amorphous piece of tissue, as the blood is likely to dry and turn into the form of a piece of tissue. But blood is not likely to become the form of a creature, such as a fish or a grasshopper.
אָמַר רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: בְּמַחְלוֹקֶת שְׁנוּיָה, וְרַבָּנַן הִיא. וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה, עַד כַּאן לָא קָאָמַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה הָתָם אֶלָּא גַּבֵּי חֲתִיכָה, דְּעָבֵיד דָּם דְּקָרֵישׁ וְהָוֵי חֲתִיכָה, אֲבָל בְּרִיָּה — לָא הָוֵי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara challenges: But this is difficult according to that version in which Rabbi Yoḥanan says that Rabbi Yehuda and the Rabbis disagree with regard to whether opening of the womb is impossible without a discharge of blood (see 21b). Since Rabbi Yehuda holds that blood automatically emerges whenever the womb opens, and therefore the woman is impure even if she did not notice any blood, he should disagree with the Rabbis in this case too, i.e., if a woman discharges an item similar to a fish or one of the other creatures.
וּלְהָךְ לִישָּׁנָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, בְּאִי אֶפְשָׁר לִפְתִיחַת הַקֶּבֶר בְּלֹא דָּם קָמִיפַּלְגִי, לִפְלוֹג נָמֵי רַבִּי יְהוּדָה בְּהָא!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara answers: The one who teaches that version of the above discussion teaches an alternative version of Rabbi Yoḥanan’s opinion here as well, like this: With regard to a woman who discharges an item similar to fish, or to grasshoppers, repugnant creatures, or creeping animals, Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish both say that this case is subject to a dispute between Rabbi Yehuda and the Rabbis, and the opinion stated in the mishna is that of the Rabbis.
מַאן דְּמַתְנֵי הָךְ לִישָּׁנָא, מַתְנֵי הָכִי: רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, דְּאָמְרִי תַּרְוַיְיהוּ, בְּמַחְלוֹקֶת שְׁנוּיָה, וְרַבָּנַן הִיא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: In the case of a woman who discharges tissue in the form of a type of domesticated animal, undomesticated animal, or bird, whether of a kosher or non-kosher species, if it is male, the woman observes the periods of impurity and purity for a woman who gives birth to a male. If it is female, the woman observes the periods of impurity and purity for a woman who gives birth to a female. And if its sex is unknown, the woman observes the strictures of a woman who gave birth to both a male and a female. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir.
הַמַּפֶּלֶת כְּמִין בְּהֵמָה [וְכוּ׳].
Niddah 22b
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נדה כ״ב במַסֶּכֶת נִדָּה