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Traité Niddah

19a

Étude de Niddah 19a

Étude de la Mishna & Guémara 19a

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : and she herself does not know exactly what the appearance of the piece of flesh that she miscarried was, e.g., if it was lost. In this case Rabbi Yehuda holds: Follow the majority of miscarriages of amorphous pieces of flesh, and the majority of pieces of flesh have the appearance of one of the four types of impure blood. And the Rabbis hold: We do not say: Follow the majority of miscarriages of amorphous pieces of flesh. Therefore, Rabbi Yoḥanan’s mention of three cases is meant to exclude this statement of Rabbi Yehuda, who rules that the woman is definitely impure based on a majority.
וְאֵינָהּ יוֹדַעַת מָה הִפִּילָה, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה סָבַר: זִיל בָּתַר רוֹב חֲתִיכוֹת, וְרוֹב חֲתִיכוֹת שֶׁל אַרְבַּע מִינֵי דָּמִים הָוְיָין. וְרַבָּנַן סָבְרִי: זִיל בָּתַר רוֹב חֲתִיכוֹת לָא אָמְרִינַן.
Mishna 1
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : MISHNA: There are five distinct colors of ritually impure blood in a woman: Red, and black, and like the bright color of the crocus [karkom] flower, and like water that inundates red earth, and like diluted wine. Beit Shammai say: Even blood like the water in which a fenugreek plant is soaked, and like the liquid that drips from roast meat, are ritually impure, and Beit Hillel deem blood of those colors ritually pure. With regard to blood that is green, Akavya ben Mahalalel deems it impure and the Rabbis deem it pure.
מַתְנִי' חֲמִשָּׁה דָּמִים טְמֵאִים בָּאִשָּׁה, הָאָדוֹם, וְהַשָּׁחוֹר, וּכְקֶרֶן כַּרְכּוֹם, וּכְמֵימֵי אֲדָמָה, וְכַמָּזוּג. בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים: אַף כְּמֵימֵי תִלְתָּן, וּכְמֵימֵי בָּשָׂר צָלִי, וּבֵית הִלֵּל מְטַהֲרִים. הַיָּרוֹק — עֲקַבְיָא בֶּן מַהֲלַלְאֵל מְטַמֵּא, וַחֲכָמִים מְטַהֲרִין.(משנה)
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Meir said: Even if the green blood does not transmit impurity due to the halakhot of a blood stain or the blood of a menstruating woman, it is blood in that it renders food susceptible to ritual impurity due to its status as one of the seven liquids that render food susceptible to impurity. Rabbi Yosei says: Neither in this sense, as the blood of a menstruating woman according to Akavya ben Mahalalel, nor in that sense, as a liquid that renders food susceptible to impurity according to Rabbi Meir, is green blood considered blood.
אָמַר רַבִּי מֵאִיר: אִם אֵינוֹ מְטַמֵּא מִשּׁוּם כֶּתֶם, מְטַמֵּא מִשּׁוּם מַשְׁקֶה. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר: לֹא כָּךְ וְלֹא כָּךְ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna asks: What is the red color that is impure? It is as red as the blood that flows from a wound. What is the black color that is impure? It is blood as black as ḥeret. If the black is deeper than that, the blood is ritually impure; if the black is lighter than that, the blood is ritually pure. And what is the color that is like the bright color of the crocus flower that is impure? It is like the brightest part in the flower, which is harvested to produce the orange-colored spice saffron.
אֵיזֶהוּ אָדוֹם — כְּדַם הַמַּכָּה; שָׁחוֹר — כְּחֶרֶת; עָמוֹק מִכֵּן — טָמֵא, דֵּיהֶה מִכֵּן — טָהוֹר; וּכְקֶרֶן כַּרְכּוֹם — כַּבָּרוּר שֶׁבּוֹ;
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And what is the color that is like water that inundates red earth that is impure? It is specifically earth from the Beit Kerem Valley and specifically when one inundates the earth with enough water until it pools on the surface. And what is the color that is like diluted wine that is impure? It is specifically when the dilution consists of two parts water and one part wine, and specifically when it is from the wine of the Sharon region in Eretz Yisrael.
וּכְמֵימֵי אֲדָמָה — מִבִּקְעַת בֵּית כֶּרֶם, וּמֵיצֵף מַיִם; וְכַמָּזוּג — שְׁנֵי חֲלָקִים מַיִם וְאֶחָד יַיִן מִן הַיַּיִן הַשָּׁרוֹנִי.
Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : GEMARA: The fact that the mishna discusses the colors of ritually impure blood in a woman indicates that there is blood that is not impure. The Gemara asks: From where do we derive that there is pure blood in a woman? Perhaps any type of blood that emerges from a woman is impure?
גְּמָ' מְנָלַן דְּאִיכָּא דָּם טָהוֹר בָּאִשָּׁה? דִּלְמָא כֹּל דָּם דְּאָתֵי מִינַּהּ טָמֵא!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Ḥama bar Yosef says that Rabbi Oshaya says: The verse states with regard to those who come before the court: “If there arise a matter too hard for you in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between leprous mark and leprous mark, even matters of controversy within your gates, then you shall arise, and get up unto the place that the Lord your God shall choose” (Deuteronomy 17:8). When the verse states: “Between blood and blood,” it means between pure blood and impure blood, which demonstrates that there must be types of pure blood that are emitted by a woman.
אָמַר רַבִּי חָמָא בַּר יוֹסֵף, אָמַר רַבִּי אוֹשַׁעְיָא, אֲמַר קְרָא: ״כִּי יִפָּלֵא מִמְּךָ דָבָר לַמִּשְׁפָּט בֵּין דָּם לְדָם״, בֵּין דָּם טָהוֹר לְדָם טָמֵא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara raises a difficulty: If that is so, then does the other expression in the verse: “Between leprous mark and leprous mark,” also mean: Between a pure leprous mark and an impure leprous mark? And if you would say that indeed, this is what it means, is there a type of pure leprous mark? And if you would say that there is in fact a pure leprous mark, according to the verse: “Then the priest shall look; and behold, if the leprosy has covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce pure the one that has the leprous mark; it is all turned white: He is pure” (Leviticus 13:13), that mark is not classified as a leprous mark; rather, it is called a paleness, as a leprous mark is by definition impure.
אֶלָּא מֵעַתָּה, בֵּין נֶגַע לָנֶגַע, הָכִי נָמֵי בֵּין נֶגַע טָמֵא לְנֶגַע טָהוֹר? וְכִי תֵימָא הָכִי נָמֵי — נֶגַע טָהוֹר מִי אִיכָּא? וְכִי תֵימָא ״כֻּלּוֹ הָפַךְ לָבָן טָהוֹר הוּא״ — הָהוּא ״בּוֹהַק״ מִקְּרֵי!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rather, the phrase “between leprous mark and leprous mark” must mean the following: Between the leprous marks that afflict man (see Leviticus 13:1–46) and the leprous marks of houses (see Leviticus 14:33–53) and the leprous marks of garments (see Leviticus 13:47–59), as different halakhot pertain to these categories of leprous marks, and yet they are all ritually impure. Therefore, here too, when the verse states: “Between blood and blood,” it means: Between the blood of a menstruating woman and the blood of a discharge [ziva], and they are all ritually impure. If so, this verse cannot be cited as proof that there is a type of blood emitted by a woman that is pure.
אֶלָּא: בֵּין נִגְעֵי אָדָם לְנִגְעֵי בָתִּים וּלְנִגְעֵי בְגָדִים, וְכוּלָּן טְמֵאִין. הָכָא נָמֵי: בֵּין דַּם נִדָּה לְדַם זִיבָה, וְכוּלָּן טְמֵאִין!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara questions this interpretation: This verse serves as the source for the areas of halakha for which a rebellious elder is liable to receive the death penalty for publicly ruling in contradiction to a decision of the Sanhedrin, as it states: “And the man who does presumptuously, in not listening to the priest that stands to minister there before the Lord your God, or to the judge, that man shall die; and you shall exterminate the evil from Israel” (Deuteronomy 17:12). With this in mind, the Gemara asks: What is this explanation? Granted, there, with regard to leprous marks, even if all the leprous marks are impure, one can disagree with the Sanhedrin with regard to the leprous marks that afflict man, and therefore the rebellious elder could potentially disagree with the court with regard to the issue that is the subject of the dispute of Rabbi Yehoshua and the Rabbis.
הַאי מַאי? בִּשְׁלָמָא הָתָם, אִיכָּא לְאִפְּלוֹגֵי [זָקֵן מַמְרֵא וְרַבָּנַן] בְּנִגְעֵי אָדָם, וּבִפְלוּגְתָּא דְּרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ וְרַבָּנַן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : As we learned in a mishna (Nega’im 4:11): If the snow-white leprous mark [baheret], which is one sign of leprosy, preceded the white hair, which is another sign, he is ritually impure, as stated in the Torah (see Leviticus 13:3). And if the white hair preceded the baheret he is pure, as this is not considered a sign of impurity. If there is uncertainty as to which came first, he is impure. And Rabbi Yehoshua says: It is dull [keha]. And Rabba says, explaining the statement of Rabbi Yehoshua: In the case of uncertainty, the leprous mark is deemed as though it is of a dull shade, and therefore the person is ritually pure.
דִּתְנַן: אִם בַּהֶרֶת קוֹדֵם לְשֵׂעָר לָבָן — טָמֵא, וְאִם שֵׂעָר לָבָן קוֹדֵם לַבַּהֶרֶת — טָהוֹר, סָפֵק — טָמֵא, וְרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אוֹמֵר: כֵּהָה. וְאָמַר רַבָּה: כֵּהָה וְטָהוֹר.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Likewise, with regard to the leprous marks of houses one can find a case where the rebellious elder might dispute the ruling of the Sanhedrin, such as that dispute between Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon, and the Rabbis. As we learned in a mishna (Nega’im 12:3): Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Shimon, says: A house is never deemed impure with leprosy unless the leprous mark will be seen to be the size of two split beans, and it is found on two stones on two walls in a corner between two walls. The length of the mark is that of two split beans, and its width is that of one split bean.
בְּנִגְעֵי בָתִּים — כִּי הָא פְּלוּגְתָּא דְּרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן וְרַבָּנַן, דִּתְנַן: רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר: לְעוֹלָם אֵין הַבַּיִת טָמֵא עַד שֶׁיֵּרָאֶה כִּשְׁנֵי גְרִיסִין עַל שְׁנֵי אֲבָנִים בִּשְׁנֵי כְּותָלִים בְּקֶרֶן זָוִית, אׇרְכּוֹ כִּשְׁנֵי גְרִיסִין וְרׇחְבּוֹ כִּגְרִיס.
Niddah 19a
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