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Traité Niddah

16b

Étude de Niddah 16b

Étude de la Guémara 16b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : GEMARA: The mishna teaches that according to Beit Shammai it is permitted to engage in intercourse by the light of a lamp. In this regard, the Sages taught in a baraita: Even though the Sages said with regard to one who engages in intercourse by the light of a lamp, that this is disgraceful, Beit Shammai say: A woman is required to examine herself with two cloths, once before and once after each act of intercourse, or she must engage in intercourse by the light of a lamp. And Beit Hillel say: It is sufficient for her to examine herself with two cloths throughout the night, once before the first act of intercourse and once after the final act of intercourse.
גְּמָ' תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאָמְרוּ הַמְשַׁמֵּשׁ מִטָּתוֹ לְאוֹר הַנֵּר הֲרֵי זֶה מְגוּנֶּה, בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים: צְרִיכָה שְׁנֵי עֵדִים עַל כׇּל תַּשְׁמִישׁ, אוֹ תְּשַׁמֵּשׁ לְאוֹר הַנֵּר. וּבֵית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים: דַּיָּהּ בִּשְׁנֵי עֵדִים כׇּל הַלַּיְלָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : It is taught in a baraita that Beit Shammai said to Beit Hillel: According to your statement that a woman may engage in intercourse several times in one night without an examination between each act of intercourse, let us be concerned lest she will see, i.e., emit, a drop of blood the size of a mustard seed during the first act of intercourse, and will thereby become impure, and semen from the second act of intercourse will cover it. Since the examination after the last act of intercourse will not reveal the drop of blood, the woman will erroneously think she is pure.
תַּנְיָא: אָמְרוּ לָהֶם בֵּית שַׁמַּאי לְבֵית הִלֵּל: לְדִבְרֵיכֶם, לֵיחוּשׁ שֶׁמָּא תִּרְאֶה טִיפַּת דָּם כְּחַרְדָּל בְּבִיאָה רִאשׁוֹנָה, וּתְחַפֶּנָּה שִׁכְבַת זֶרַע בְּבִיאָה שְׁנִיָּה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Beit Hillel said to them in response: Even according to your statement, let us be concerned that while the saliva was still in the mouth, i.e., while the blood was in her vagina, perhaps it was squashed and disappeared. Even if she examines herself after each act of intercourse, as mandated by Beit Shammai, it is possible that the semen of that act covered the blood, and it will not be revealed by the examination.
אָמְרוּ לָהֶם בֵּית הִלֵּל: אַף לְדִבְרֵיכֶם, לֵיחוּשׁ עַד שֶׁהָרוֹק בְּתוֹךְ הַפֶּה, שֶׁמָּא נִימּוֹק וְהוֹלֵךְ לוֹ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Beit Shammai said to Beit Hillel: One cannot compare the two situations, as a squashed drop of blood after the woman has engaged in intercourse once is not similar to a squashed drop of blood after the woman has engaged in intercourse twice, and therefore our concern is more reasonable.
אָמְרוּ לָהֶם: לְפִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ דּוֹמֶה נִימּוֹק פַּעַם אַחַת, לְנִימּוֹק שְׁתֵּי פְּעָמִים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : It is taught in a baraita that Rabbi Yehoshua said: I see as correct the statement of Beit Shammai in this case. His students said to him: Our teacher, how you have weighed [he’erakhta] us down with this stringent ruling. Rabbi Yehoshua said to them: It is preferable that I weigh you down in this world, so that you do not sin by engaging in prohibited intercourse, i.e., so that your days in the World-to-Come will be lengthened [sheya’arikhu].
תַּנְיָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: רוֹאֶה אֲנִי אֶת דִּבְרֵי בֵּית שַׁמַּאי. אָמְרוּ לוֹ תַּלְמִידָיו: רַבִּי, כַּמָּה הֶאֱרַכְתָּ עָלֵינוּ! אָמַר לָהֶם: מוּטָב שֶׁאַאֲרִיךְ עֲלֵיכֶם בָּעוֹלָם הַזֶּה, כְּדֵי שֶׁיַּאֲרִיכוּ יְמֵיכֶם לָעוֹלָם הַבָּא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rabbi Zeira says: From the statements of all of them, i.e., both Beit Shammai, who permit engaging in intercourse a second time only after an examination, and Beit Hillel, who rule that the second examination must be performed only after the final act of intercourse of the night, we can learn that their dispute relates only to that which is permitted after the fact. But a pious person [ba’al nefesh] should not engage in intercourse and repeat his act without an examination between each act.
אָמַר רַבִּי זֵירָא: מִדִּבְרֵי כּוּלָּם נִלְמַד, בַּעַל נֶפֶשׁ — לֹא יִבְעוֹל וְיִשְׁנֶה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava says: Even a pious person may engage in intercourse and repeat the act without an examination in between, as when that baraita is taught, it is referring to a woman who handles pure items. But with regard to intercourse with her husband, there is no cause for concern.
רָבָא אָמַר: בּוֹעֵל וְשׁוֹנָה, כִּי תַנְיָא הַהִיא — לִטְהָרוֹת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : This opinion is also taught in a baraita: In what case is this statement said, i.e., that a woman must examine herself before and after every act of intercourse according to Beit Shammai, or before the first act and after the last act, according to Beit Hillel? It was said with regard to a woman who handles pure items; but a woman is permitted to her husband even without any examination, and he is not required to ask her if she is pure. But in what case is this lenient statement said? When her husband traveled and left her with the presumptive status of ritual purity. But if he left her with the presumptive status of ritual impurity, she remains forever in her presumptive status of impurity until she says to him: I am pure.
תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי: בַּמֶּה דְבָרִים אֲמוּרִים — לִטְהָרוֹת, אֲבָל לְבַעְלָהּ — מוּתֶּרֶת. וּבַמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים — שֶׁהִנִּיחָהּ בְּחֶזְקַת טׇהֳרָה, אֲבָל הִנִּיחָהּ בְּחֶזְקַת טְמֵאָה — לְעוֹלָם הִיא בְּחֶזְקָתָהּ, עַד שֶׁתֹּאמַר לוֹ ״טְהוֹרָה אֲנִי״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rabbi Abba says that Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Ashi says that Rav says: If a woman examined herself at night with a cloth, and the cloth was then immediately lost, it is prohibited for her to engage in intercourse again until she examines herself with another cloth, as perhaps there was blood on the cloth that was lost. Rabbi Ila objects to this: If this cloth were intact, i.e., if it were not lost, couldn’t this woman engage in intercourse with her husband that night, on the basis that she will examine the cloth only the following day, and isn’t this the halakha even though she does not know at the time of intercourse whether there is blood on the cloth? Now too, although the cloth is lost, let her engage in intercourse with her husband.
אָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא, אָמַר רַבִּי חִיָּיא בַּר אָשֵׁי, אָמַר רַב: בָּדְקָה בְּעֵד וְאָבַד — אֲסוּרָה לְשַׁמֵּשׁ עַד שֶׁתִּבְדּוֹק. מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַבִּי אִילָא: אִילּוּ אִיתֵאּ — מִי לָא מְשַׁמְּשָׁה, וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּלָא יָדְעָה? הַשְׁתָּא נָמֵי תְּשַׁמֵּשׁ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava said to him: There is a difference between the two cases, as when the cloth is intact, this woman’s proof exists, and if she discovers on the following day that she was impure they will be obligated to bring sin offerings for engaging in intercourse in a state of ritual impurity. But with regard to that woman who lost her cloth, her proof does not exist, and therefore they will never know if they require atonement.
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבָא: זוֹ מוֹכִיחָהּ קַיָּים, וְזוֹ אֵין מוֹכִיחָהּ קַיָּים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is prohibited for a person to engage in intercourse by day. Rav Hamnuna says: What is the verse from which this is derived? As it is stated: “Let the day perish on which I was born, and the night on which it was said: Conceived is a man-child” (Job 3:3). It is derived from here that nighttime is meant for conception, but daytime is not meant for conception. Reish Lakish says that the proof is from here: “But he who despises his ways shall die” (Proverbs 19:16). One might see something unpleasing in his wife in the daylight and come to despise her.
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אָסוּר לָאָדָם שֶׁיְּשַׁמֵּשׁ מִטָּתוֹ בַּיּוֹם. אָמַר רַב הַמְנוּנָא: מַאי קְרָא? שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״יֹאבַד יוֹם אִוָּלֶד בּוֹ וְהַלַּיְלָה אָמַר הוֹרָה גָבֶר״ — לַיְלָה נִיתַּן לְהֵרָיוֹן, וְיוֹם לֹא נִיתַּן לְהֵרָיוֹן. רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר מֵהָכָא: ״בּוֹזֵה דְרָכָיו יָמוּת״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And how does Reish Lakish interpret this verse cited by Rabbi Yoḥanan? The Gemara answers that he requires that verse for that which Rabbi Ḥanina bar Pappa taught. As Rabbi Ḥanina bar Pappa interpreted that verse in the following manner: That angel that is appointed over conception is called: Night. And that angel takes the drop of semen from which a person will be formed and presents it before the Holy One, Blessed be He, and says before Him: Master of the Universe, what will be of this drop? Will the person fashioned from it be mighty or weak? Will he be clever or stupid? Will he be wealthy or poor?
וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, הַאי קְרָא דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן מַאי דָּרֵישׁ בֵּיהּ? מִבָּעֵי לֵיהּ לְכִדְדָרֵישׁ רַבִּי חֲנִינָא בַּר פָּפָּא, דְּדָרֵישׁ רַבִּי חֲנִינָא בַּר פָּפָּא: אוֹתוֹ מַלְאָךְ הַמְמוּנֶּה עַל הַהֵרָיוֹן ״לַיְלָה״ שְׁמוֹ, וְנוֹטֵל טִפָּה וּמַעֲמִידָהּ לִפְנֵי הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא, וְאוֹמֵר לְפָנָיו: רִבּוֹנוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם, טִפָּה זוֹ מָה תְּהֵא עָלֶיהָ? גִּבּוֹר אוֹ חַלָּשׁ? חָכָם אוֹ טִיפֵּשׁ? עָשִׁיר אוֹ עָנִי?
Niddah 16b
100%
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