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Traité Menachot

89b

Étude de Menachot 89b

Étude de la Mishna & Guémara 89b

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And one may mix together the libations of an offering brought on one day with those of the day before, if the meal offerings have the same ratio of oil to flour.
שֶׁל יוֹם בְּשֶׁל אֶמֶשׁ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : But one may not mix together the libations of lambs with the libations of bulls or the libations of rams, as the meal offerings have different ratios of oil to flour. And nevertheless, if one intermingled the flour and oil of these lamb offerings by themselves and the flour and oil of these bull or ram offerings by themselves, and only then were they mixed together, then they remain fit to be sacrificed. If they were mixed together before the oil and flour of each offering were independently intermingled to form the meal offering, then they are disqualified.
אֲבָל אֵין מְעָרְבִין נִסְכֵי כְבָשִׂים בְּנִסְכֵי פָרִים וְאֵילִים, וְאִם בְּלָלָן אֵלּוּ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָן וְאֵלּוּ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָן וְנִתְעָרְבוּ – כְּשֵׁרִים, אִם עַד שֶׁלֹּא בָּלַל – פָּסוּל.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : With regard to the lamb offering that comes with the omer meal offering, which is accompanied by another meal offering and a wine libation, even though the quantity of flour used in its meal offering is doubled, i.e., one uses twice the amount that is generally used for meal offerings that accompany the sacrifice of a lamb, its oil and wine libations were not doubled; rather, three log of oil and three log of wine were used, per the standard quantities used for a lamb.
הַכֶּבֶשׂ הַבָּא עִם הָעוֹמֶר, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁמִּנְחָתוֹ כְּפוּלָה – לֹא הָיוּ נְסָכָיו כְּפוּלִים.
Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : GEMARA: The mishna states that different types of libations may be mixed together provided that the meal offerings have the same flour to oil ratio. And the Gemara raises a contradiction to this from a baraita discussing the verse: “And he shall sacrifice, from the peace offerings, a fire to the Lord: The fat covering the innards, and all the fat that is on the innards, and the two kidneys with the fat that is on them, which is over the loins; and the diaphragm with the liver, with the kidneys, he shall take away. And Aaron’s sons shall burn it on the altar, apart from the burnt offering, which is on the wood that is on the fire; it is a fire of a pleasing aroma to the Lord” (Leviticus 3:3–5).
גְּמָ׳ וּרְמִינְהוּ:
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The direct object of the term: “And they shall burn,” i.e., the pronoun “it,” is singular, despite referring to the many types of fats listed in the verse. This indicates that one may not mix fats of one offering with the fats of a different offering, but should burn the parts from each offering separately. Similarly, it follows that the libations accompanying different animal offerings should not be mixed together.
״וְהִקְטִירוֹ״, שֶׁלֹּא יְעָרֵב חֲלָבִים בַּחֲלָבִים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yoḥanan says: The mishna stated only that if libations of different offerings were mixed together one may still sacrifice them, but not that this is permitted ab initio. Accordingly, there is no contradiction between the mishna and baraita.
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: ״אִם נִתְעָרְבוּ״ קָא אָמַר.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara infers: If that is so, then when the mishna states in its first clause: And one may not mix together the libations of lambs with the libations of bulls or the libations of rams, the intention is that even after the fact, if they were mixed together, they are also not valid. The Gemara challenges: But from the fact that the latter clause teaches: If one intermingled the flour and oil of these lamb offerings by themselves and the flour and oil of these bull or ram offerings by themselves and only then were they mixed together then they remain fit to be sacrificed, which is explicitly referring to the halakha after the fact, it may be inferred that the first clause stated the halakha ab initio.
אִי הָכִי, וְאֵין מְעָרְבִין נִסְכֵי כְבָשִׂים בְּנִסְכֵי פָרִים וְאֵילִים, וַאֲפִילּוּ נִתְעָרְבוּ נָמֵי לָא? וְהָא מִדְּקָתָנֵי סֵיפָא: בְּלָלָן אֵלּוּ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָן וְאֵלּוּ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָן וְנִתְעָרְבוּ כְּשֵׁרִין, מִכְּלָל דְּרֵישָׁא לְכַתְּחִלָּה קָא אָמַר!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Abaye said that this is what the mishna is saying: When different animal offerings are sacrificed, their wine libations may be mixed together ab initio, but only if their fine flour and their oil from their respective meal offerings were already mixed together, albeit improperly.
אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: הָכִי קָאָמַר, מְעָרְבִין יֵינָן, אִם נִתְעָרֵב סׇלְתָּן וְשַׁמְנָן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And is it correct that one may not mix together the wine libations of different offerings ab initio unless their flour and oil were already mixed? But isn’t it taught in the continuation of the baraita just cited: In what case is this statement, that one may not mix together parts from different offerings, said? It is said only with regard to flour and oil. But one may mix together the wine libations of different offerings. The implication is that this is the halakha even if their meal offerings had not been mixed together.
וְיֵינָן לְכִתְחִלָּה לָא? וְהָתַנְיָא: בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים – בְּסֹלֶת וָשֶׁמֶן, אֲבָל יַיִן מְעָרְבִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rather, Abaye said that this is what the mishna is saying: With regard to offerings of similar types of animals, where their fine flour and their oil from their respective meal offerings have been burned on the altar, one may mix together the wine libations ab initio. And even where their fine flour and their oil have not been burned, if their fine flour and their oil have at least been mixed together, one may mix together their wine libations ab initio. But if the fine flour and oil have not been mixed together, then one may not mix the libations together. The reason is that if one does mix the libations, perhaps one will come to mix together their flour and oil ab initio, which is prohibited.
אֶלָּא אָמַר אַבָּיֵי: הָכִי קָאָמַר – הֵיכָא דְּהוּקְטַר סׇלְתָּן וְשַׁמְנָן, מְעָרְבִין יַיִן לְכַתְּחִלָּה. הֵיכָא דְּלָא הוּקְטַר – אִם נִתְעָרֵב סׇלְתָּן וְשַׁמְנָן, מְעָרְבִין נָמֵי יֵינָן, וְאִם לָאו – אֵין מְעָרְבִין, דִּלְמָא אָתֵי לְאִיעָרוֹבֵי סֹלֶת וְשֶׁמֶן לְכַתְּחִלָּה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: With regard to the lamb offering that comes with the omer meal offering, the quantity of flour used in its meal offering is doubled, i.e., one uses twice the amount that is generally used for meal offerings that accompany the sacrifice of a lamb, but the quantities of oil and wine are not doubled. The Sages taught in a baraita: The verse states with regard to the omer meal offering: “And its meal offering shall be two tenths” (Leviticus 23:13). This verse teaches about the lamb that comes with the omer that the size of its meal offering is doubled.
כֶּבֶשׂ הַבָּא עִם הָעוֹמֶר, תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: ״וּמִנְחָתוֹ שְׁנֵי עֶשְׂרוֹנִים״, לִימֵּד עַל כֶּבֶשׂ הַבָּא עִם הָעוֹמֶר שֶׁמִּנְחָתוֹ כְּפוּלָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : One might have thought that just as its meal offering is doubled, so too its wine libation should be doubled, i.e., instead of using a quarter-hin, as is generally done for lambs, one should use a half-hin. To counter this, the verse states, in its continuation: “And its libation shall be of wine, a quarter-hin” (Leviticus 23:13). One might have thought that it is only its wine libation that should not be doubled, as it is not intermingled with the flour of its meal offering, but its oil should be doubled, as it is intermingled with the flour of its meal offering. To counter this, the verse states: “And its libation shall be of wine, a quarter-hin,” which teaches that all of its libations shall be only a quarter-hin, but no more.
יָכוֹל כְּשֵׁם שֶׁמִּנְחָתוֹ כְּפוּלָה, כָּךְ יֵינוֹ כָּפוּל? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר ״וְנִסְכּוֹ יַיִן רְבִיעִית הַהִין״. יָכוֹל לֹא יְהֵא יֵינוֹ כָּפוּל שֶׁאֵינוֹ נִבְלָל עִם מִנְחָתוֹ, אֲבָל יְהֵא שַׁמְנוֹ כָּפוּל שֶׁנִּבְלָל עִם מִנְחָתוֹ? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר ״וְנִסְכּוֹ״ – כׇּל נְסָכָיו לֹא יְהוּ אֶלָּא רְבִיעִית.
Menachot 89b
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