Traité Menachot

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : If so, which size vessel shall I bring in its stead to complete the tally of seven vessels? Rather, there was an additional measuring vessel of one and a half log there in the Temple, with which one would measure the oil used for the griddle-cake offering of the High Priest; one and a half log were used in the morning and one and a half log in the afternoon.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Rabbis said to Rabbi Shimon: There is no need for a dedicated vessel for the one and a half log for the High Priest’s offering, as there was a vessel of one-half of a log there, in the Temple, and it is possible to calculate the required one and a half log by using the vessel of one-half of a log three times.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Shimon said to them: But according to your statement as well, one should not fashion a vessel of one-half of a log or of one log, as there was a vessel of one-quarter of a log there, and it is possible to calculate whatever quantity is required by repeatedly using the vessel of one-quarter of a log. Rather, this was the principle with regard to measuring vessels in the Temple: A measuring vessel that was used for measuring this quantity was not used to measure a different quantity.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita concludes with an opinion that is also stated in the mishna: Rabbi Elazar, son of Rabbi Tzadok, says: There were graduations on the vessel that held one hin, indicating the respective quantities needed for the bull, the ram, and the lamb.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara analyzes the baraita. What difference is there between the opinions of Rabbi Meir and Rabbi Yehuda? They both list the same seven vessels, but in a different order. Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The practical difference between them concerns whether the vessels consecrate the overflow [beirutzei] of the measuring vessels, i.e., the liquid that flows down over the outer walls of the vessel when it is filled beyond capacity.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : According to the one who said that the vessels should be listed in ascending order of size, i.e., Rabbi Yehuda, he holds that the overflow of measuring vessels is consecrated. His reasoning is as follows: When Moses was commanded to fashion these vessels, the Merciful One initially gave Moses a measuring vessel of one-quarter of a hin and said to him: With this vessel calculate the various quantities needed and fashion vessels accordingly. So, for example, to calculate one-half of a hin, Moses would twice fill up the vessel of one-quarter of a hin, each time pouring it into a larger vessel. When pouring from a small vessel into a larger one, the overflow also enters the larger one and so it is included in the calculation. Evidently, the overflow is also consecrated.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : According to the one who said that the vessels should be listed in descending order of size, i.e., Rabbi Meir, he holds that the overflow of measuring vessels is not consecrated. His reasoning is as follows: When Moses was commanded to fashion these vessels for the Temple, the Merciful One initially gave Moses a measuring vessel of one hin and said to him: With this vessel calculate the various quantities needed and fashion vessels accordingly. So, for example, to calculate one-half of a hin, Moses filled the vessel of one hin and divided it equally into two vessels. Then, to calculate one-quarter of a hin, he would equally divide the liquid in one of those vessels into another two vessels. When pouring from a large vessel into a smaller one, the overflow on the outer walls of the larger vessel does not enter the smaller vessel but instead falls to the ground. Therefore, the overflow is excluded from the calculation. Accordingly, there is no basis to say that the overflow is consecrated.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Abaye said: Everyone, both Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Meir, agrees that with regard to the overflow of measuring vessels, one could say that they are consecrated and one could say that they are not consecrated, i.e., their dispute is unrelated to this issue. But here they disagree with regard to the meaning of the term “full” in the verse: “And his offering was one silver dish, its weight was one hundred and thirty shekels, one silver basin of seventy shekels, after the shekel of the Sanctuary; both of them full of fine flour mixed with oil for a meal offering” (Numbers 7:13).

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The one who said that the vessels should be listed in descending order of size, i.e., Rabbi Meir, holds that the term “full” indicates that the size of each vessel should be exact, i.e., that it should hold neither less nor more than the prescribed amount. If one calculates the various sizes by first filling a vessel of the largest size, one hin, and then dividing its contents carefully between two smaller vessels and so on, one will arrive at accurate measurements. By contrast, if one starts with the smallest size and uses it multiple times to calculate larger quantities, then each time one pours he includes the overflow of the smaller vessel, and so the quantities calculated are slightly larger than prescribed.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And the one who said that the vessels should be listed in ascending order of size, i.e., Rabbi Yehuda, holds that the intention of the term “full” is that the size of each vessel should not hold less than the prescribed amount, but if it holds more, that is still called full. Accordingly, the various quantities can be calculated by starting with the smallest vessel.

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : In the mishna and the baraita cited above the Master said that in contrast to the opinion of the Rabbis, Rabbi Shimon says: There was no vessel there in the Temple that held one hin, as what purpose could a one-hin vessel serve? That volume of liquid was never used in an offering. The Gemara comments: Rabbi Shimon is saying well to the Rabbis, i.e., this is a reasonable objection. And what would the Rabbis say? Why is there a measuring vessel of one hin? The Gemara answers: It was the vessel of one hin that Moses fashioned in the wilderness for measuring the anointing oil with which the Tabernacle, its vessels, and the priests were anointed, as it is written: “And of olive oil a hin. And you shall make it a holy anointing oil” (Exodus 30:24–25).

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains the dispute between Rabbi Shimon and the Rabbis. One Sage, Rabbi Shimon, holds that since there was no further need for the vessel of one hin in future generations, Moses fashioned it only for the sake of that time, and then afterward it was sequestered. And the other Sage, the Rabbis, holds that since it was fashioned and used in the time of Moses, it was kept in the Temple despite the fact there was no longer a need for it.