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Traité Menachot

7b

Étude de Menachot 7b

Étude de la Guémara 7b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Sheshet notes: The entire process of the replacement of the shewbread is taught in the mishna, and yet the statement: A priest raises the Table above the ground so that the bowls of frankincense can be properly removed from them, is not taught. One can therefore conclude from the mishna that just as the bowls of frankincense are removed from a vessel that is resting upon the ground, i.e., the Table, so too, one may remove a handful of a meal offering from a vessel that is resting upon the ground.
וְאִילּוּ מַגְבִּיהַּ אֶת הַשּׁוּלְחָן לָא קָתָנֵי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara rejects this proof: Didn’t you already say there, with regard to the mishna that discusses improper intentions expressed during the service of a meal offering (12a), that the tanna cited only the order of sacrificial rites? Here too, the tanna cited only the order of sacrificial rites. Therefore, one cannot prove from here that there is no requirement to raise the Table.
לָאו אָמְרַתְּ הָתָם, סֵדֶר עֲבוֹדוֹת נָקֵט? הָכָא נָמֵי סֵדֶר עֲבוֹדוֹת נָקֵט.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: Are these mishnayot comparable? There, on 12a, the tanna did not delve into the number of priests involved in the service of a meal offering. Here, on 99b, the tanna does in fact delve into the number of priests involved in the service of the shewbread. Therefore, if it is so, i.e., if the Table must be raised before the bowls of frankincense are removed, let the tanna teach that another priest raises the Table. Rather, conclude from the mishna that one may remove a handful of a meal offering from a vessel that is resting upon the ground. The Gemara affirms: Conclude from here that this is so.
מִי דָּמֵי? הָתָם לָא נָחֵית לְמִנְיָינָא דְּכֹהֲנִים, הָכָא נָחֵית לְמִנְיָינָא דְּכֹהֲנִים. אִם אִיתָא – לִיתְנֵי מַגְבִּיהַּ! אֶלָּא שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ: קוֹמְצִין מִכְּלִי שֶׁעַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע. שְׁמַע מִינַּהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rava said: It is obvious to me that a priest may remove a handful from a vessel that is resting upon the ground, as we find such an instance in the case of the removal of the bowls of frankincense from the Table of the shewbread, since the Table is resting upon the ground of the Sanctuary when they are removed. Similarly, one can sanctify a meal offering in a vessel that is resting upon the ground, as we find such an instance in the case of the arrangement of the bowls of frankincense upon the Table of the shewbread.
אָמַר רָבָא: פְּשִׁיטָא לִי, קוֹמֵץ מִכְּלִי שֶׁעַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע – שֶׁכֵּן מָצִינוּ בְּסִילּוּק בָּזִיכִין. מְקַדְּשִׁין מִנְחָה בִּכְלִי שֶׁעַל גַּבֵּי קַרְקַע – שֶׁכֵּן מָצִינוּ בְּסִידּוּר בָּזִיכִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava raises a dilemma: With regard to the sanctification of a handful by placing it in a vessel that is resting upon the ground, what is the halakha? Do we derive this halakha from the sanctification of a meal offering, in which case one can sanctify a handful in this manner, just as he can do so with a meal offering? Or do we derive it from the collection of the blood of an offering, in which case one cannot do so, just as the blood of an offering may not be collected in a vessel that is resting upon the ground? Rava then resolves the dilemma: We derive it from the collection of the blood.
בָּעֵי רָבָא: קִידּוּשׁ קוֹמֶץ מַאי? מִמִּנְחָה יָלְפִינַן לַהּ, אוֹ מִדָּם יָלְפִינַן לַהּ? הֲדַר פַּשְׁטַהּ: מִדָּם יָלְפִינַן לַהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And did Rava really say this, that the halakha with regard to the sanctification of a handful is derived from the collection of the blood? But it was stated: With regard to a full measure of a handful that a priest divided and placed in two vessels, Rav Naḥman says that it is not sanctified, and Rava says that it is sanctified. And if it is so that the halakha of the handful is derived from the collection of the blood, then let Rava derive from blood that the handful is not sanctified in this manner, just as the blood is not sanctified when divided into two. The Gemara responds: Rava retracted that statement and ruled that a handful is not sanctified when divided and placed into two vessels.
וּמִי אָמַר רָבָא הָכִי? וְהָא אִתְּמַר: קוֹמֶץ שֶׁחִלְּקוֹ בִּשְׁנֵי כֵּלִים, רַב נַחְמָן אָמַר: אֵינוֹ קָדוֹשׁ, וְרָבָא אָמַר: קָדוֹשׁ. וְאִם אִיתָא, לֵילַף מִדָּם! הֲדַר בֵּיהּ רָבָא מֵהַהִיא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara further discusses the halakha with regard to the collection of the blood. And with regard to blood, from where do we derive that it is not sanctified in halves, i.e., when collected in two vessels? It is derived from that which Rav Taḥlifa ben Shaul teaches with regard to the water of purification: If the priest sanctified the water in two vessels in such a manner that he sanctified less than the amount of sprinkling in this vessel, i.e., there was not enough water into which he could dip a bundle of hyssop and sprinkle the water with it, and he sanctified less than the amount of sprinkling in that vessel, then he has not sanctified the water. Even if he subsequently combines the contents of both vessels into a single vessel, the water is not sanctified.
וָדָם מְנָלַן דְּלָא קָדוֹשׁ לַחֲצָאִין? דְּתָנֵי רַב תַּחְלִיפָא בֶּן שָׁאוּל: קִידֵּשׁ פָּחוֹת מִכְּדֵי הַזָּאָה בִּכְלִי זֶה, וּפָחוֹת מִכְּדֵי הַזָּאָה בִּכְלִי זֶה – לֹא קִידֵּשׁ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara continues: And a dilemma was raised before the Sages: With regard to the collection of blood of a sin offering for the purpose of sprinkling it upon the altar, what is the halakha? Is the ruling with regard to the water of purification a halakha transmitted to Moses from Sinai, in which case the halakha with regard to blood may not be derived from it, as we do not derive other cases from a halakha transmitted to Moses from Sinai?
וְאִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: בְּדָם מַאי? הִלְכְתָא הִיא, וּמֵהִלְכְתָא לָא יָלְפִינַן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains the other side of the dilemma: Or perhaps, there, in the case of the water of purification, what is the reason that it is not sanctified? It is possible that the reason is that it is written in a verse that is referring to the water initially placed in the vessel: “And dip it in the water” (Numbers 19:18). If this verse is the source of the halakha that the hyssop may be dipped in the water of purification only when there was initially enough water in the vessel for sprinkling, then here too, in the case of the blood of a sin offering, isn’t it written: “And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood” (Leviticus 4:6)?
אוֹ דִלְמָא הָתָם מַאי טַעְמָא – דִּכְתִיב ״וְטָבַל בַּמַּיִם״, הָכָא נָמֵי הָכְתִיב ״וְטָבַל בַּדָּם״?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara continues: And it was stated with regard to this dilemma: Rabbi Zerika says that Rabbi Elazar says: Even in the case of the blood, one has not sanctified it if he collected less than a full measure of blood in a single vessel. Rava said that this is also taught in a baraita with regard to the bull of the anointed priest. The verse states: “And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood” (Leviticus 4:6). From the term “And the priest shall dip” it is derived that there must be enough blood inside the vessel in which to dip his finger, and there should not be so little blood that he must resort to wiping his finger along the walls of the vessel.
וְאִיתְּמַר, אָמַר רַבִּי זְרִיקָא אָמַר רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר: אַף בְּדָם לֹא קִידֵּשׁ. אָמַר רָבָא: תַּנְיָא נָמֵי הָכִי, בִּפְנֵי כֹּהֵן מַנִּיחַ, ״וְטָבַל״ וְלֹא מְסַפֵּיג.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita continues: Additionally, from the term “in the blood” it is derived that there should initially be in the vessel containing the blood a measure fit for dipping his finger. Furthermore, it is derived from the term “of the blood” that he must sprinkle from the blood of the matter, as will be explained.
״בַּדָּם״ – שֶׁיְּהֵא בַּדָּם שִׁיעוּר טְבִילָה מֵעִיקָּרוֹ, ״מִן הַדָּם״ – מִן הַדָּם שֶׁבָּעִנְיָן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And it was necessary for the Merciful One to write: “And the priest shall dip,” and it was necessary for the Merciful One to write: “In the blood,” despite the fact that both terms are referring to the amount of blood that must be in the vessel. Because if the Merciful One had written only: “And the priest shall dip,” I would say that it is enough if the vessel contains enough blood for even one sprinkling, even though the priest did not initially collect a measure fit for all of the sprinklings, that is, enough with which to sprinkle seven times. Therefore, the Merciful One writes: “In the blood.”
וְאִיצְטְרִיךְ לְמִכְתַּב ״וְטָבַל״, וְאִיצְטְרִיךְ לְמִכְתַּב ״בַּדָּם״, דְּאִי כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא ״וְטָבַל״ הֲוָה אָמֵינָא: אַף עַל גַּב דְּלֹא קִיבֵּל שִׁיעוּר טְבִילוֹת, דְּהַיְינוּ הַזָּאָה שֶׁבַע פְּעָמִים מֵעִיקָּרוֹ, כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא ״בַּדָּם״.
Menachot 7b
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