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Traité Menachot

60b

Étude de Menachot 60b

Étude de la Guémara 60b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : which is an obligatory meal offering; and it is stated there, with regard to the deep-pan meal offering, which is a voluntary meal offering. Just as a voluntary meal offering requires bringing near, so too an obligatory meal offering, such as the meal offering of a sinner, requires bringing near.
מִנְחַת חוֹבָה, וְנֶאֱמַר הָבֵא מִנְחַת נְדָבָה. מָה מִנְחַת נְדָבָה טְעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה – אַף מִנְחַת חוֹבָה טְעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita rejects this inference: What is notable about a voluntary meal offering? It is notable in that it requires oil and frankincense upon it, rendering its halakha more stringent than that of the meal offering of a sinner, which does not include oil and frankincense. Therefore, it would be logical to suggest that a voluntary meal offering requires bringing near but the meal offering of a sinner does not. The baraita responds: The meal offering brought by a sota, i.e., the meal offering of jealousy, can prove that this factor is not decisive, as it does not include oil and frankincense either, and yet it requires bringing near.
מָה לְמִנְחַת נְדָבָה, שֶׁכֵּן טְעוּנָה שֶׁמֶן וּלְבוֹנָה? מִנְחַת סוֹטָה תּוֹכִיחַ!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita rejects this claim: One cannot derive the halakha of the meal offering of a sinner from the meal offering brought by a sota, as there is another requirement that applies to the meal offering brought by a sota but not to the meal offering of a sinner: What is notable about the meal offering brought by a sota? It is notable in that it requires waving, whereas the meal offering of a sinner does not. The baraita responds: The voluntary meal offering can prove that waving is not the decisive factor, as a voluntary meal offering does not require waving and yet it requires bringing near.
מָה לְמִנְחַת סוֹטָה שֶׁכֵּן טְעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה? מִנְחַת נְדָבָה תּוֹכִיחַ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Therefore, the inference has reverted to its starting point, as the aspect of this case is not like the aspect of that case and the aspect of that case is not like the aspect of this case; their common element is that the voluntary meal offering and the meal offering brought by a sota are equal with regard to the requirement of the removal of a handful, and similarly they are equal with regard to the requirement of bringing near. I will also bring the additional case of the meal offering of a sinner, which is equal to them with regard to the requirement of the removal of a handful, and conclude that it should likewise be equal to them with regard to the requirement of bringing near.
וְחָזַר הַדִּין, לֹא רְאִי זֶה כִרְאִי זֶה, וְלֹא רְאִי זֶה כִּרְאִי זֶה. הַצַּד הַשָּׁוֶה שֶׁבָּהֶן – שֶׁשָּׁווּ לִקְמִיצָה, וְשָׁווּ לְהַגָּשָׁה. אַף אֲנִי אָבִיא מִנְחַת חוֹטֵא שֶׁשָּׁוָה לָהֶן לִקְמִיצָה, תַּשְׁוֶה לָהֶן לְהַגָּשָׁה!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita rejects this suggestion: What is notable about the common element of the voluntary meal offering and the meal offering brought by a sota? It is notable in that they are suited to come as the meal offering of a wealthy person just as they are suited to come as the meal offering of a poor person. Shall you say the same with regard to the meal offering of a sinner, which is not suitable to come either as the meal offering of a wealthy person or as the meal offering of a poor person, since a sinner who is not poor does not bring a meal offering but a different offering (see Leviticus 5:6–11)? Therefore, the verse states: “The meal offering” (Leviticus 2:8), with the addition of the definite article, to include the meal offering of a sinner in the requirement of bringing near.
מָה לְהַצַּד הַשָּׁוֶה שֶׁבָּהֶן, שֶׁכֵּן הוּכְשְׁרוּ לָבֹא בְּעָשִׁיר כִּבְעָנִי, תֹּאמַר בְּמִנְחַת חוֹטֵא שֶׁלֹּא הוּכְשְׁרָה לָבֹא בְּעָשִׁיר כִּבְעָנִי? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר ״אֶת הַמִּנְחָה״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Shimon adds to the logical inference and says that other cases are included in the derivation from the verse, as the term “and you shall bring” serves to include the omer meal offering in the requirement of bringing near to the altar; and so the verse states with regard to the omer meal offering: “Then you shall bring the omer, the first of your harvest to the priest” (Leviticus 23:10). Furthermore, “and it shall be drawn near” serves to include the meal offering brought by a sota in the requirement of bringing near; and so the verse states with regard to the meal offering brought by a sota: “And draw it near to the altar” (Numbers 5:25).
רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן אוֹמֵר: ״וְהֵבֵאתָ״ – לְרַבּוֹת מִנְחַת הָעוֹמֶר לְהַגָּשָׁה, וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״וַהֲבֵאתֶם אֶת עֹמֶר רֵאשִׁית קְצִירְכֶם אֶל הַכֹּהֵן״, ״וְהִקְרִיבָהּ״ – לְרַבּוֹת מִנְחַת סוֹטָה לְהַגָּשָׁה, וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״וְהִקְרִיב אֹתָהּ אֶל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita challenges: But this halakha is capable of being derived a fortiori by logical inference: And if the meal offering of a sinner, which includes a lenient aspect, as it does not require waving, nevertheless requires bringing near, then with regard to the meal offering brought by a sota, which does require waving, is it not logical to conclude that it should require bringing near? The baraita rejects this logical inference, as there is a stringency that applies to the meal offering of a sinner which does not apply to the meal offering brought by a sota: What is notable about the meal offering of a sinner? It is notable in that it comes from wheat, whereas the meal offering brought by a sota comes from barley, an inferior product.
וְדִין הוּא: וּמָה מִנְחַת חוֹטֵא, שֶׁאֵינָהּ טְעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה – טְעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה, מִנְחַת סוֹטָה, שֶׁטְּעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה – אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁטְּעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה! מָה לְמִנְחַת חוֹטֵא, שֶׁכֵּן בָּאָה חִיטִּין!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita responds: The omer meal offering can prove that this factor is not decisive, as it also comes from barley, and yet it requires bringing near. Therefore, the same should apply to the meal offering brought by a sota. The baraita rejects this claim: What is notable about the omer meal offering? It is notable in that it requires oil and frankincense, whereas the meal offering brought by a sota does not. The baraita answers: The meal offering of a sinner can prove that the requirement of oil and frankincense is not a decisive factor, as the meal offering of a sinner does not require oil and frankincense and yet it requires bringing near.
מִנְחַת הָעוֹמֶר תּוֹכִיחַ. מָה לְמִנְחַת הָעוֹמֶר, שֶׁכֵּן טְעוּנָה שֶׁמֶן וּלְבוֹנָה? מִנְחַת חוֹטֵא תּוֹכִיחַ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Consequently, the inference has reverted to its starting point, as the aspect of this case is not like the aspect of that case and the aspect of that case is not like the aspect of this case; their common element is that both the omer meal offering and the meal offering of a sinner are equal with regard to the requirement of the removal of a handful, and they are equal with regard to the requirement of bringing near. I will also bring the additional case of the meal offering brought by a sota, which is equal to them with regard to the requirement of the removal of a handful, and conclude that it should likewise be equal to them with regard to the requirement of bringing near.
וְחָזַר הַדִּין, לֹא רְאִי זֶה כִּרְאִי זֶה, וְלֹא רְאִי זֶה כִּרְאִי זֶה. הַצַּד הַשָּׁוֶה שֶׁבָּהֶן, שֶׁשָּׁווּ לִקְמִיצָה וְשָׁווּ לְהַגָּשָׁה, אַף אֲנִי אָבִיא מִנְחַת סוֹטָה שֶׁשָּׁוְותָה לָהֶן לִקְמִיצָה – תִּשְׁוֶה לָהֶן לְהַגָּשָׁה!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The baraita rejects this suggestion: What is notable about the common element of the omer meal offering and the meal offering of a sinner? It is notable in that they are both not suited to come as coarse flour, but only as fine flour. Shall you say the same with regard to the meal offering brought by a sota, which is suited to come as coarse flour? Therefore, the verse states: “And draw it near,” which serves to include the meal offering brought by a sota in the requirement of bringing near.
מָה לְהַצַּד הַשָּׁוֶה שֶׁבָּהֶן, שֶׁכֵּן לֹא הוּכְשְׁרוּ לָבֹא קֶמַח, תֹּאמַר מִנְחַת סוֹטָה שֶׁהוּכְשְׁרָה לָבֹא קֶמַח? תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר ״וְהִקְרִיבָהּ״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : It was stated that Rabbi Shimon derives from the term “and you shall bring” (Leviticus 2:8), written in the context of the deep-pan meal offering, that the omer meal offering is included in the requirement of bringing near. Conversely, Rabbi Yehuda says: The term “and you shall bring” serves to include the meal offering brought by a sota in the requirement of bringing near; and so the verse states with regard to the meal offering brought by a sota: “Then the man shall bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring her offering for her, a tenth of an ephah of barley flour; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor give frankincense upon it, for it is a meal offering of jealousy, a meal offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance” (Numbers 5:15).
רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: ״וְהֵבֵאתָ״ – לְרַבּוֹת מִנְחַת סוֹטָה לְהַגָּשָׁה, וְכֵן הוּא אוֹמֵר: ״וְהֵבִיא אֶת קׇרְבָּנָהּ עָלֶיהָ״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : But with regard to the omer meal offering, a verse is not needed to teach that it requires bringing near. The baraita asks: What is the reason that no verse is needed for the omer meal offering? It is because this halakha is derived a fortiori by logical inference: And if the meal offering of a sinner, which includes a lenient aspect, as it does not require waving, nevertheless requires bringing near, then with regard to the omer meal offering, which includes a stringent aspect, as it does require waving, is it not logical to conclude that it should require bringing near?
אֲבָל מִנְחַת הָעוֹמֶר לָא צְרִיכָא קְרָא, מַאי טַעְמָא? מִדִּינָא קָא אָתְיָא: וּמָה מִנְחַת חוֹטֵא שֶׁאֵינָהּ טְעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה – טְעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה, מִנְחַת הָעוֹמֶר שֶׁטְּעוּנָה תְּנוּפָה – אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁטְּעוּנָה הַגָּשָׁה!
Menachot 60b
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