AccueilÉtudeTanakhBibliothèqueSujetsParachaDivrei TorahRabbanimSagesHistoireÀ proposMes favorisFaire un don
Retour

Traité Menachot

23a

Étude de Menachot 23a

Étude de la Mishna & Guémara 23a

Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava said: Rabbi Yehuda holds that in the case of any mixture that consists of a substance in contact with the same type of substance as well as another type of substance, the halakha is to disregard the same substance, considering it as though it were not there, and in the event that the different type of substance is more than the first substance, the different substance nullifies the first substance. In the case of the mishna here, the handful of the meal offering is mixed with other types of meal offerings that comprise greater quantities of oil. The oil of the handful is disregarded, and the flour of the handful, which is present in greater quantities than the oil of the other meal offering that is absorbed in it, nullifies this oil of the other meal offering. That oil is now considered to be one with the oil of the handful, and therefore the oil of the handful is increased, and the handful is unfit.
אָמַר רָבָא: קָסָבַר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה, כׇּל שֶׁהוּא מִין בְּמִינוֹ וְדָבָר אַחֵר – סַלֵּק אֶת מִינוֹ כְּמִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ, וְשֶׁאֵינוֹ מִינוֹ רָבֶה עָלָיו וּמְבַטְּלוֹ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § It was stated that the amora’im disagreed with regard to the halakha where one added oil to the handful that is removed from the meal offering of a sinner, which does not include oil. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is unfit, and Reish Lakish says: The halakha of the meal offering itself is to wipe it, ab initio, in the remainder of the log of oil that remains in the vessels that were used previously for other meal offerings, and the priest then brings it up and burns it on the altar. This is done so that the meal offering will not be completely dry.
אִיתְּמַר: קוֹמֶץ דְּמִנְחַת חוֹטֵא שֶׁשִּׁמְּנוֹ, רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אוֹמֵר: פָּסוּל, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: הוּא עַצְמוֹ מְשַׁכְשְׁכוֹ בִּשְׁיָרֵי הַלּוֹג וּמַעֲלֵהוּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: But isn’t it written with regard to the meal offering of a sinner: “He shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense on it” (Leviticus 5:11)? How, then, can any oil be added? The Gemara answers: That verse teaches that one should not designate oil for it as one designates oil for the other meal offerings, but the meal offering of a sinner is not rendered unfit by the addition of a small amount of oil.
וְהָכְתִיב: ״לֹא יָשִׂים עָלֶיהָ שֶׁמֶן וְלֹא יִתֵּן עָלֶיהָ לְבוֹנָה״? הַהוּא שֶׁלֹּא יִקְבַּע לָהּ שֶׁמֶן כְּחַבְרוֹתֶיהָ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yoḥanan raised an objection to Reish Lakish from a baraita (Tosefta 4:4): In the case of a dry meal offering that was intermingled with a meal offering that was mixed with oil, the priest shall sacrifice it. Rabbi Yehuda says: The priest shall not sacrifice it. What, is the baraita not referring to a handful of the meal offering of a sinner that was intermingled with a handful of a voluntary meal offering, demonstrating that the oil invalidates the handful of a meal offering of a sinner?
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ: חָרֵב שֶׁנִּתְעָרֵב בְּבָלוּל – יַקְרִיב, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: לֹא יַקְרִיב. מַאי לָאו, קוֹמֶץ דְּמִנְחַת חוֹטֵא דְּאִיעָרַב בְּקוֹמֶץ דְּמִנְחַת נְדָבָה?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Reish Lakish responded: No, the baraita is referring to the meal offering that accompanies the libations brought with the offerings of bulls or rams, for which two log of oil is mixed with a tenth of an ephah of flour, that became intermingled with the meal offering that accompanies the libations brought with the offering of sheep, for which three log of oil is mixed with a tenth of an ephah of flour, as the former is considered dry relative to the latter.
לֹא, מִנְחַת פָּרִים וְאֵילִים בְּמִנְחַת כְּבָשִׂים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yoḥanan objected: But another baraita teaches this explicitly as a separate halakha: With regard to the meal offering that accompanies the offerings of bulls or rams that became intermingled with the meal offering that accompanies the offering of sheep, and a dry meal offering that was intermingled with a meal offering that was mixed with oil, the meal offering shall be sacrificed. Rabbi Yehuda says: It shall not be sacrificed. Therefore, the latter case must be referring to other meal offerings. Reish Lakish responded: The latter clause is explaining the first clause of the baraita, teaching that the reason one may not offer a meal offering that accompanies bulls and rams that was intermingled with the meal offering that accompanies sheep is because one may not offer a dry offering that was intermingled with one that is mixed with oil.
וְהָא בְּהֶדְיָא קָתָנֵי לַהּ: מִנְחַת פָּרִים וְאֵילִים בְּמִנְחַת כְּבָשִׂים, וְחָרֵב שֶׁנִּתְעָרֵב בְּבָלוּל – יִקְרַב, רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר: לֹא יִקְרַב. פָּרוּשֵׁי קָמְפָרֵשׁ לַהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rava raises a dilemma: In the case of a handful whose oil the priest squeezed onto the wood and only afterward he placed the handful on the wood to be burned, what is the halakha? Are substances that are contiguous to items that ascend upon the altar considered to be as part of the items that ascend upon the altar, in which case the oil that was absorbed into the wood and is contiguous to the handful of the meal offering is considered part of the handful? Or are they not considered to be as part of the items that ascend upon the altar, and the oil is not viewed as part of the handful, and therefore the handful is missing oil? Ravina said to Rav Ashi: Is this not the same disagreement as the dispute between Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish?
בָּעֵי רָבָא: קוֹמֶץ שֶׁמִּיצָּה שַׁמְנוֹ עַל גַּבֵּי עֵצִים, מַהוּ? חִיבּוּרֵי עוֹלִין כְּעוֹלִין דָּמוּ, אוֹ לָאו כְּעוֹלִין דָּמוּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבִינָא לְרַב אָשֵׁי: לָאו הַיְינוּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : As it was stated: With regard to one who offers up, outside the Temple courtyard, a limb that contains less than an olive-bulk of meat, but the offering’s bone completes the measure of the offering to an olive-bulk, Rabbi Yoḥanan says: He is liable, and Reish Lakish says: He is exempt.
דְּאִיתְּמַר: הַמַּעֲלֶה אֵבֶר שֶׁאֵין בּוֹ כְּזַיִת, וְעֶצֶם מַשְׁלִימוֹ לִכְזַיִת – רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: חַיָּיב, רֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: פָּטוּר.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yoḥanan says that one is liable because he holds that substances that are contiguous to items that ascend upon the altar are considered to be as part of the items that ascend upon the altar. Therefore, the measure of the bone is added to the measure of the meat, resulting in a total measure of an olive-bulk, which is the measure that determines liability. And Reish Lakish says that one is exempt because he holds that substances that are contiguous to items that ascend upon the altar are not considered to be as part of the items that ascend upon the altar. Since less than an olive-bulk of meat was sacrificed, he is not liable.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר חַיָּיב, חִיבּוּרֵי עוֹלִין כְּעוֹלִין דָּמוּ, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר פָּטוּר, חִיבּוּרֵי עוֹלִין לָאו כְּעוֹלִין דָּמוּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Ashi responded: Rava’s dilemma can be raised according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, and Rava’s dilemma can be raised according to Reish Lakish. The circumstances in their dispute are not the same as in Rava’s dilemma, so their opinions in that case may not be applicable to this one. Rav Ashi elaborates: The dilemma can be raised according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, even though he holds that the bone is considered to be part of the meat to complete the measure of an olive-bulk. Perhaps Rabbi Yoḥanan says his opinion only there, in the case of a bone, because the bone is the same type as the meat, i.e., it is from the same animal, and is therefore considered to be part of the sacrificial meat. But in this case of oil, which is not the same type as the handful, it is not considered to be a part of the handful even if it is contiguous to it.
תִּיבְּעֵי לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וְתִיבְּעֵי לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ. תִּיבְּעֵי לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: עַד כָּאן לָא קָא אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן הָתָם, אֶלָּא בְּעֶצֶם, דְּמִינָא דְּבָשָׂר הוּא, אֲבָל הַאי דְּלָאו דְּמִינָא דְּקוֹמֶץ הוּא – לָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Or perhaps, even according to Reish Lakish, he says his ruling only in the case of the bone, teaching that it does not add to the quantity of the meat. The reason is that the bone is able to be separated from the meat, and if it separated, there is no mitzva to return it to the fire. Therefore, he views it as distinct from the meat. But in this case of oil, which is not able to be separated from the handful of the meal offering, as it must be burned together with the handful, he will not hold that the oil is viewed as separate from the handful. Or perhaps there is no difference between the case of the bone and the case of the oil, and Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish would have the same opinions, respectively, in both cases. The Gemara comments: The dilemma shall stand unresolved.
אוֹ דִלְמָא, אֲפִילּוּ לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ לָא קָא אָמַר אֶלָּא בְּעֶצֶם, דְּבַר מִפְרַשׁ הוּא, וְאִי פָּרֵישׁ – לָאו מִצְוָה לְאַהְדּוֹרֵי, אֲבָל שֶׁמֶן דְּלָאו בַּר מִפְרַשׁ הוּא – לָא, אוֹ דִּלְמָא לָא שְׁנָא. תֵּיקוּ.
Mishna 1
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : MISHNA: In the case of two meal offerings from which a handful was not removed and that were intermingled with each other, if the priest can remove a handful from this meal offering by itself and from that meal offering by itself, they are fit meal offerings, but if not, they are unfit, as the handful of each meal offering must be taken from its original source.
מַתְנִי׳ שְׁתֵּי מְנָחוֹת שֶׁלֹּא נִקְמְצוּ וְנִתְעָרְבוּ זוֹ בָּזוֹ, אִם יָכוֹל לִקְמוֹץ מִזּוֹ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָהּ וּמִזּוֹ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָהּ – כְּשֵׁירוֹת, וְאִם לָאו – פְּסוּלוֹת.(משנה)
Menachot 23a
100%
מנחות כ״ג אמַסֶּכֶת מְנָחוֹת