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Traité Menachot

16b

Étude de Menachot 16b

Étude de la Guémara 16b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara raises a difficulty against Rav Ashi’s interpretation: But the baraita teaches: Whether during the first presentation or whether during the second, which indicates that the Rabbis disagree with Rabbi Meir even with regard to a case where the priest had intent of piggul during any one of the presentations. The Gemara notes: Indeed, this poses a difficulty.
וְהָא ״בֵּין בֵּין״ קָתָנֵי! קַשְׁיָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The Gemara returns to the discussion of the baraita itself. The Master said above: If the priest had intent of piggul, whether in the first set of presentations, whether in the second set, or whether in the third set, Rabbi Meir says: The offering is piggul and one is liable to receive karet for its consumption, despite the fact that he performed the rest of the rite silently. The Gemara asks: Now consider, one is not liable to receive karet unless all the permitting factors of the offering have been sacrificed, i.e., if the whole service is completed, including the presentation of the blood.
אָמַר מָר: רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר פִּגּוּל, וְחַיָּיבִין עָלָיו כָּרֵת. מִכְּדֵי, כָּרֵת לָא מִיחַיַּיב עַד שֶׁיִּקְרְבוּ כׇּל הַמַּתִּירִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara provides the source for this claim. As the Master said that the verse states with regard to piggul: “It shall not be accepted” (Leviticus 7:18), which indicates that the acceptance of a disqualified offering is like the acceptance of a valid offering, of which the verse states: “It shall be accepted” (Leviticus 22:27), and just as there is no acceptance of a valid offering unless all its permitting factors have been sacrificed, so too there is no lack of acceptance of a disqualified offering, i.e., it is not rendered piggul, unless all its permitting factors have been sacrificed. That is to say, in the absence of one of its permitting factors it does not become piggul.
דְּאָמַר מָר: ״יֵרָצֶה״ – כְּהַרְצָאַת כָּשֵׁר, כָּךְ הַרְצָאַת פָּסוּל; מָה הַרְצָאַת כָּשֵׁר עַד שֶׁיִּקְרְבוּ כׇּל הַמַּתִּירִין, אַף הַרְצָאַת פָּסוּל עַד שֶׁיִּקְרְבוּ כׇּל הַמַּתִּירִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Accordingly, the Gemara challenges: And with regard to this case, of the blood of the bull and goat brought on Yom Kippur, since he had intent of piggul with regard to it when he was presenting the blood inside the Holy of Holies, he has disqualified it. If so, when he sprinkles the blood again later in the Sanctuary, on the Curtain and the inner altar, it is as though he is merely sprinkling water, and not the blood of the offering. Consequently, the permitting factors of the offering have not been sacrificed, and therefore the offering should not be rendered piggul.
וְהַאי, כֵּיוָן דְּחַשֵּׁיב בֵּהּ בִּפְנִים – פַּסְלֵיהּ, כִּי מַדֵּי בְּהֵיכַל – מַיָּא בְּעָלְמָא הוּא דְּקָא מַדֵּי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabba said: You find it possible in a case where there were four bulls and four goats, i.e., in a case where after the High Priest presented the blood inside the Holy of Holies with piggul intent, the remaining blood spilled. Consequently, he was required to bring another bull and goat in order to present their blood on the Curtain separating the Sanctuary and Holy of Holies. During that presentation he had intent of piggul, after which the remaining blood spilled, requiring him to bring another bull and goat in order to present their blood on the corners of the golden altar. He again had intent of piggul during that presentation, and then the blood spilled, which meant he had to bring yet another bull and goat in order to present their blood upon the golden altar itself.
אָמַר רַבָּה: מַשְׁכַּחַתְּ לַהּ בְּאַרְבָּעָה פָּרִים וְאַרְבָּעָה שְׂעִירִים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava said: You may even say that the baraita is referring to a case of only one bull and one goat, and the remaining blood was in fact disqualified. Nevertheless, with regard to rendering an offering piggul, the presentations performed with the disqualified blood effect acceptance, as though the entire permitting factor was performed in its proper manner. In other words, even though the High Priest sprinkled the blood inside the Holy of Holies with improper intent, and thereby disqualified the offering, nevertheless, since he completed the service he is considered as having sacrificed all the permitting factors with regard to piggul.
רָבָא אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ תֵּימָא פַּר אֶחָד וְשָׂעִיר אֶחָד, לְפַגּוֹלֵי מְרַצֵּי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The baraita mentioned that there are forty-three presentations of the blood of the bull and the goat sacrificed on Yom Kippur. The Gemara asks: But isn’t it taught otherwise in a different baraita, which states that there are forty-seven presentations of that blood? The Gemara answers: This is not difficult. This statement, that there are forty-three presentations, is in accordance with the opinion of the one who says that the High Priest mixes the blood of the bull and the goat before placing it on the corners of the inner altar, rather than placing the blood of each one separately. And that statement, that there are forty-seven presentations, is in accordance with the opinion of the one who says that the High Priest does not mix the two types of blood before placing them on the corners, but sprinkles four times from the blood of the bull and another four times from the blood of the goat, and only afterward mixes the blood of the two animals for placement on the top of the altar.
אַרְבָּעִים וְשָׁלֹשׁ, וְהָתַנְיָא: אַרְבָּעִים וָשֶׁבַע! לָא קַשְׁיָא, הָא כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר: מְעָרְבִין לִקְרָנוֹת, וְהָא כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר: אֵין מְעָרְבִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara raises another difficulty: But isn’t it taught in yet another baraita that there are forty-eight presentations? The Gemara answers: This is not difficult. This statement, that there are forty-eight presentations, is in accordance with the opinion of the one who says that the pouring of the remainder of the blood on the base of the external altar is indispensable, and therefore this act is added to the total. That statement, that there are only forty-seven presentations, is in accordance with the opinion of the one who says that the pouring of the remainder of the blood is not indispensable.
וְהָתַנְיָא: אַרְבָּעִים וּשְׁמוֹנָה! לָא קַשְׁיָא, הָא כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר: שִׁירַיִם מְעַכְּבִין, הָא כְּמַאן דְּאָמַר: שִׁירַיִם לֹא מְעַכְּבִין.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches: If one had intent of piggul during the sacrifice of only part of the permitting factors, e.g., during the burning of the handful but not during the burning of the frankincense, the Rabbis rule that the offering is not piggul. Concerning this, a dilemma was raised before the Sages: If one had intent of piggul during the conveying of the handful to the altar but not during the conveying of the frankincense, what is the halakha?
אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: פִּיגֵּל בְּהוֹלָכָה, מַהוּ?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rabbi Yoḥanan says: The halakha with regard to conveying the handful is like that of the removing of the handful. Just as intent of piggul with regard to removing only the handful renders the offering piggul, as it is the sole permitting factor with which the rite of removal is performed, the same applies to conveying the handful. And Reish Lakish says: The conveying of the handful is like its burning. Just as intent of piggul is required during the burning of both the handful and the frankincense for the offering to be rendered piggul, as both of them are burned on the altar, the same halakha applies to conveying.
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: הוֹלָכָה כִּקְמִיצָה, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: הוֹלָכָה כְּהַקְטָרָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: Granted, one can understand the ruling of Reish Lakish, as the conveying of the handful is only part of the permitting factors, since there is also the conveying of the frankincense. But as for the ruling of Rabbi Yoḥanan, what is the reason that intent of piggul during the conveying of only the handful renders the offering piggul? After all, he has not had intent of piggul during the conveying of all of the permitting factors.
בִּשְׁלָמָא לְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ, אִיכָּא נָמֵי הוֹלָכָה דִּלְבוֹנָה, אֶלָּא לְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן מַאי טַעְמָא?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava said: Rabbi Yoḥanan holds that if one performed any sacrificial rite that does not permit the offering, e.g., conveying, even if he performed it with only one of the permitting factors, such as with the handful and not with the frankincense, it is considered a significant rite with regard to rendering the offering piggul on account of it, by itself. It is not comparable to a case of intent of piggul during the sacrifice of only part of the permitting factors, as this rite of conveying does not render the offering permitted.
אָמַר רָבָא, קָסָבַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: כׇּל עֲבוֹדָה שֶׁאֵינָהּ מַתֶּרֶת, עֲבוֹדָה חֲשׁוּבָה הִיא לְפַגֵּל עָלֶיהָ בִּפְנֵי עַצְמָהּ.
Menachot 16b
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