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Traité Bava Metzia

74a

Étude de Bava Metzia 74a

Étude de la Guémara 74a

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : By contrast, here, the matter is not in his power to determine whether or not to buy the wine, as perhaps the owner will not sell it to him.
הָכָא לָאו בְּיָדוֹ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § Rava said: In the case of these three people who gave money to one individual in order for him to purchase an item for them and he purchased the item for only one of them, he has actually purchased it for all of them. All three share ownership of that which was purchased, and the one for whom the item was purchased does not have any additional claim on the merchandise. And we said this ruling only when the agent did not wrap up and seal each person’s money separately but rather put all of the money in one bundle. But if he wrapped up and sealed each person’s money separately and spent the money of only one of them, he purchased the item only for the one for whom he purchased it, and he did not purchase the item for those for whom he did not purchase it.
אָמַר רָבָא: הָנֵי בֵּי תְלָתָא דְּיָהֲבִי זוּזֵי לְחַד לְמִזְבַּן לְהוּ מִידֵּי וּזְבַן לְחַד מִינַּיְיהוּ – זְבַן לְכוּלְּהוּ. וְלָא אֲמַרַן אֶלָּא דְּלָא צָר וַחֲתֵים אִינִישׁ אִינִישׁ לְחוֹדֵיהּ. אֲבָל צָר וַחֲתֵים אִינִישׁ אִינִישׁ לְחוֹדֵיהּ, לְמַאן דִּזְבַן – זְבַן, וּלְמַאן דְּלָא זְבַן – לָא זְבַן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rav Pappi said in the name of Rava: In this case of labeling an item with a marker [situmta], which was commonly used to indicate that specific merchandise had been sold, even though the buyer had not yet paid and the item was still located in the seller’s warehouse, the labeling effects acquisition of the merchandise for the buyer. The Gemara asks: With regard to what halakha was this said? What is the significance of this acquisition? Rav Ḥaviva said: It means to actually effect acquisition, in other words, that the merchandise belongs to the buyer for all intents and purposes.
אָמַר רַב פַּפִּי מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּרָבָא: הַאי סִיטוּמְתָּא – קָנְיָא. לְמַאי הִלְכְתָא? רַב חֲבִיבָא אֲמַר: לְמִקְנֵיא מַמָּשׁ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : But the Rabbis said: It effects acquisition only concerning a case where one of the parties withdraws from the transaction and is required to accept upon himself the curse of: He Who exacted payment from the people of the generation of the flood, and from the people of the generation of the dispersion, i.e., that of the Tower of Babel, will in the future exact payment from whoever does not stand by his statement (see 44a). The court does not force the parties to complete the transaction but applies the curse to the one who withdraws for his lack of integrity.
רַבָּנַן אָמְרִי: לְקַבּוֹלֵי עֲלֵיהּ מִי שֶׁפָּרַע.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara concludes: And the halakha is that a marker effects the acquisition of the item only in that one who withdraws from the transaction is required to accept upon himself the curse: He Who exacted payment. But in a place where the custom is that it actually effects the acquisition of the item, it actually effects acquisition of it, as the halakha recognizes the legitimacy of the local custom.
וְהִלְכְתָא לְקַבּוֹלֵי עֲלֵיהּ ״מִי שֶׁפָּרַע״. וּבְאַתְרָא דִּנְהִיגוּ לְמִקְנֵי מַמָּשׁ – קָנוּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The mishna teaches that if the seller was first among the reapers, he may set a price with the buyer only when the produce he has is ready for delivery. Rav says: If only two actions needed to complete the labor to prepare the produce were lacking, he may set a price, as the produce is viewed as if it had already been prepared. But if three actions were lacking, he may not set a price, as the item is still not considered prepared, and the setting of a price in advance creates a concern of interest. And Shmuel says: If the actions needed to complete the labor are to be performed by human hands, then even if one hundred actions were lacking, he may set a price, but if the necessary actions must be accomplished by the hand of Heaven, then even if one action is lacking, he may not set a price.
הָיָה הוּא תְּחִלָּה לַקּוֹצְרִים. אָמַר רַב: מְחוּסָּר שְׁתַּיִם – פּוֹסֵק. שָׁלֹשׁ – אֵינוֹ פּוֹסֵק. וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר: בִּידֵי אָדָם – אֲפִילּוּ מֵאָה פּוֹסֵק. בִּידֵי שָׁמַיִם – אֲפִילּוּ אַחַת אֵינוֹ פּוֹסֵק.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara challenges Rav’s opinion. We learned in the mishna that he may set a price on a stack of grain. But there are still several actions that are lacking: Placing it in the sun to dry, and threshing, and winnowing. There are three actions that are lacking, and yet the mishna rules that he may set a price. The Gemara responds: The mishna is discussing a case where he already placed it in the sun and it dried. Consequently, there are only two actions that are lacking.
תְּנַן: פּוֹסֵק עִמּוֹ עַל הַגָּדִישׁ, וְהָא מְחוּסָּר מִשְׁדֵּא בְּחַמָּה לְמֵיבַשׁ וּלְמֵידַשׁ וּמִידְרֵא! כְּגוֹן דִּשְׁדָא בְּחַמָּה וִיבַשׁ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara asks: And according to Shmuel, who says: If the actions remaining are to be accomplished by the hand of Heaven even if only one action is lacking he may not set a price, how does he explain the mishna? In the case of the mishna the produce is lacking winnowing, which is done by the hand of Heaven, since winnowing can be done only when there is wind. The Gemara answers: It is possible to winnow with sieves when the wind is not blowing. Although this is done only in exigent circumstances, since it is possible to perform the action entirely by human hands, it is permitted to set a price.
וְלִשְׁמוּאֵל, דְּאָמַר: בִּידֵי שָׁמַיִם אֲפִילּוּ אַחַת אֵינוֹ פּוֹסֵק, וְהָא מְחוּסָּר מִידְרֵא, דְּבִידֵי שָׁמַיִם הִיא – אֶפְשָׁר בְּנָפְווֹתָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna teaches that one may set a price for a large basket of grapes. Based on this, the Gemara challenges the opinion of Rav: But there are still several actions that are lacking: Warming in a stack, bringing the grapes to the winepress, treading upon them, and drawing the wine out into the pit where it is stored. The Gemara answers: This can be explained as Rabbi Ḥiyya teaches, concerning a difficulty raised from the next clause of the mishna, that the mishna is not discussing setting a price on olives immediately after they were picked but rather for a stack [hakomer] of warmed olives, and here also, it is speaking about a price for a stack of warmed grapes.
וְעַל הֶעָבִיט שֶׁל עֲנָבִים. וְהָא מְחוּסָּר מִכְמַר, וְעַיּוֹלֵי לְבֵי מַעְצַרְתָּא, לְמֵידַשׁ וּלְמִנְגַּד! כִּדְתָנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא: עַל הַכּוֹמֶר שֶׁל זֵיתִים, הָכָא נָמֵי עַל הַכּוֹמֶר שֶׁל עֲנָבִים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara challenges: But there are three actions that are lacking. The Gemara explains: The mishna is discussing a place where the local custom is that the one who purchases the grapes is the one who draws the wine out of the winepress. Consequently, there are only two actions remaining to complete the labor before the merchandise will be ready for purchase.
וְהָא מְחוּסְּרֵי תְּלָת! בְּאַתְרָא דְּהָהוּא דְּזָבֵין הוּא דְּנָגֵיד.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna teaches that one may set a price for a vat of olives. Based on this, the Gemara challenges the opinion of Rav: But there are still several actions that are lacking: Warming the olives in a stack, bringing the olives to the olive press, pressing them, and drawing the oil out into the pit where it is stored. The Gemara answers: Rabbi Ḥiyya teaches a baraita with a different version of the statement, which reads: For a stack of olives that has already been warmed. The Gemara challenges: But there are three actions that are lacking: Bringing the olives to the olive press, pressing them, and drawing the oil. The Gemara explains: The mishna is discussing a place where the local custom is that the one who purchases the olives is the one who draws the oil.
וְעַל הַמַּעֲטָן שֶׁל זֵיתִים. וְהָא מְחוּסָּר מִכְמַר וְעַיּוֹלֵי לְבֵי דַפֵּי לְמֵידַשׁ וּלְמִנְגַּד! תָּנֵי רַבִּי חִיָּיא: עַל כּוֹמֶר שֶׁל זֵיתִים. הָא אִיכָּא תְּלָת! בְּאַתְרָא דְּהָהוּא דְּזָבֵין הָהוּא (מְנַגֵּיד).
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna teaches that one may set a price for the clumps of clay prepared for use by a potter. Based on this, the Gemara challenges the opinion of Rav: Why is this permitted? But there are still several actions that are lacking: Rolling them out to the proper size, drying them, putting them into the kiln, burning them, and removing them from the kiln. The Gemara answers: The mishna is discussing a case where they were already rolled and dried. The Gemara challenges: But there are three actions that are lacking. The Gemara explains: The mishna is discussing a place where the local custom is that the one who purchases the clumps of clay is the one who removes them from the kiln.
וְעַל הַבֵּיצִים שֶׁל יוֹצֵר. אַמַּאי? וְהָא מְחוּסָּר לָפוֹפֵי וְיַבּוֹשֵׁי, עַיּוֹלֵי לְאַתּוּנָא לְמִשְׂרַף וּלְמִיפַּק! כְּגוֹן דִּמְלָפְפָה וִיבִישׁוּ. וְהָא אִיכָּא תְּלָת! בְּאַתְרָא דְּהָהוּא דְּזָבֵין הוּא דְּמַפֵּיק.
Bava Metzia 74a
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