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Traité Bava Metzia

24a

Étude de Bava Metzia 24a

Étude de la Guémara 24a

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And he can lie with regard to a host [ushpiza], as one may say that he was not well received by a certain host to prevent everyone from taking advantage of the host’s hospitality. What is the practical difference that emerges from this statement with regard to matters in which Torah scholars deviate from the truth? Mar Zutra says: The practical difference is with regard to returning a lost item on the basis of visual recognition. If we know about him that he alters his statements only with regard to these three matters, we return the lost item to him, but if he alters his statements with regard to other matters, we do not return the lost item to him.
וּבְאוּשְׁפִּיזָא. מַאי נָפְקָא מִינַּהּ? אָמַר מָר זוּטְרָא: לְאַהְדּוֹרֵי לֵיהּ אֲבֵידְתָּא בִּטְבִיעוּת עֵינָא. אִי יָדְעִינַן בֵּיהּ דְּלָא מְשַׁנֵּי אֶלָּא בְּהָנֵי תְּלָת – מַהְדְּרִינַן לֵיהּ, וְאִי מְשַׁנֵּי בְּמִילֵּי אַחֲרִינֵי – לָא מַהְדְּרִינַן לֵיהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara relates: A silver goblet was stolen from the host of Mar Zutra Ḥasida. Mar Zutra saw a certain student of Torah who washed his hands and dried them on the cloak of another. Mar Zutra said: This is the one who does not care about the property of another. He bound that student, and the student then confessed that he stole the goblet.
מָר זוּטְרָא חֲסִידָא אִגְּנִיב לֵיהּ כָּסָא דְכַסְפָּא מֵאוּשְׁפִּיזָא. חַזְיֵאּ לְהָהוּא בַּר בֵּי רַב דְּמָשֵׁי יְדֵיהּ וְנָגֵיב בִּגְלִימָא דְחַבְרֵיהּ. אֲמַר: הַיְינוּ הַאי דְּלָא אִיכְפַּת לֵיהּ אַמָּמוֹנָא דְחַבְרֵיהּ. כַּפְתֵיהּ וְאוֹדִי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : It is taught in a baraita: Although Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar holds that one does not need to proclaim his finding of anpurya vessels, he concedes that the finder is obligated to proclaim his find of new vessels that the eye of its purchaser has sufficiently seen. And these are new vessels that the eye of its purchaser has not yet sufficiently seen and concerning which the finder is not obligated to proclaim his find: for example, branches [badei] upon which needles or utensils for spinning are hanging, or strings of axes. When is it permitted for the one who finds all those items that the tanna mentioned in the baraita to keep them? It is when he found them one at a time. But if he found them two at a time, the finder is obligated to proclaim his find.
תַּנְיָא: מוֹדֶה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר בְּכֵלִים חֲדָשִׁים שֶׁשְּׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן שֶׁחַיָּיב לְהַכְרִיז. וְאֵלּוּ הֵן כֵּלִים חֲדָשִׁים שֶׁלֹּא שְׂבָעָתַן הָעַיִן שֶׁאֵינוֹ חַיָּיב לְהַכְרִיז, כְּגוֹן בַּדֵּי מְחָטִין, וְצִינּוֹרִיּוֹת, וּמַחְרוֹזוֹת שֶׁל קַרְדּוּמּוֹת. כׇּל אֵלּוּ שֶׁאָמְרוּ, אֵימָתַי מוּתָּרִים? בִּזְמַן שֶׁמְּצָאָן אֶחָד אֶחָד, אֲבָל מְצָאָן שְׁנַיִם שְׁנַיִם – חַיָּיב לְהַכְרִיז.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara clarifies: What is the meaning of the term badei? It means branches. And why did the tanna call them branches? It is because the item upon which one hangs another item [davar detalu bei midei], he calls it a branch, like that which we learned there (Sukka 44b): One leaf on one branch.
מַאי ״בַּדֵּי״? שׂוֹכֵי. וְאַמַּאי קָרוּ לֵיהּ ״בַּדֵּי״? דָּבָר דְּתָלוּ בֵּיהּ מִידֵּי, ״בַּד״ קָרוּ לֵיהּ. כִּי הַהוּא דִּתְנַן הָתָם: עָלֶה אֶחָד בְּבַד אֶחָד.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The baraita continues: And likewise, Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar would say: In the case of one who rescues a lost item from a lion, or from a bear, or from a leopard, or from a cheetah [bardelas], or from the tide of the sea, or from the flooding of a river; and in the case of one who finds a lost item in a main thoroughfare [seratya] or a large plaza [pelatya], or in any place where the multitudes are found, these items belong to him due to the fact that the owner despairs of their recovery.
וְכֵן הָיָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר אוֹמֵר: הַמַּצִּיל מִן הָאֲרִי וּמִן הַדּוֹב וּמִן הַנָּמֵר וּמִן הַבַּרְדְּלָס וּמִן זוֹטוֹ שֶׁל יָם וּמִשְּׁלוּלִיתוֹ שֶׁל נָהָר, הַמּוֹצֵא בִּסְרַטְיָא וּפְלַטְיָא גְּדוֹלָה, וּבְכׇל מָקוֹם שֶׁהָרַבִּים מְצוּיִין שָׁם – הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ שֶׁלּוֹ, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהַבְּעָלִים מִתְיָאֲשִׁין מֵהֶן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : A dilemma was raised before the Sages: When Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says that if one finds a lost item in any place where multitudes are found, the item belongs to him, did he refer only to a place where there is a majority of gentiles; but in a place where there is a majority of Jews, the owner does not despair of recovering the item, because he relies on the Jews to return his item? Or perhaps, even in a place where there is a majority of Jews, he also says that the item belongs to the one who found it.
אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: כִּי קָאָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר – בְּרוֹב גּוֹיִם אֲבָל בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל – לָא, אוֹ דִלְמָא אֲפִילּוּ בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל נָמֵי אָמַר?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you say that even in a place where there is a majority of Jews, he also said that the item belongs to the one who found it, do the Rabbis disagree with him or do they not disagree?
אִם תִּמְצָא לוֹמַר אֲפִילּוּ בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל נָמֵי אָמַר, פְּלִיגִי רַבָּנַן עֲלֵיהּ, אוֹ לָא פְּלִיגִי?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you say that the Rabbis disagree with him, in a place where there is a majority of Jews, they certainly disagree. In a place where there is a majority of gentiles, do the Rabbis disagree, or do they not disagree?
וְאִם תִּמְצָא לוֹמַר פְּלִיגִי, בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל וַדַּאי פְּלִיגִי, בְּרוֹב גּוֹיִם פְּלִיגִי אוֹ לָא פְּלִיגִי?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you say that the Rabbis disagree with him even in a place where there is a majority of gentiles, is the halakha in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar, or is the halakha not in accordance with his opinion?
וְאִם תִּמְצָא לוֹמַר פְּלִיגִי אֲפִילּוּ בְּרוֹב גּוֹיִם הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתוֹ אוֹ אֵין הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתוֹ?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you say that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar, does this halakha apply specifically in a place where there is a majority of gentiles, or is the halakha in accordance with his opinion even in a place where there is a majority of Jews?
אִם תִּמְצָא לוֹמַר הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתוֹ, דַּוְקָא בְּרוֹב גּוֹיִם אוֹ אֲפִילּוּ בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara suggests: Come and hear a proof from a baraita: In the case of one who finds coins in synagogues [bevatei khenesiyyot] and study halls or in any place where the multitudes are found, these coins belong to him, due to the fact that the owner despairs of their recovery. Who is the one about whom you heard that he follows the multitudes, i.e., that he attaches significance to the loss of an item in a place where the multitudes are present? It is Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar. Conclude from the baraita that Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar holds that a lost item belongs to the finder even in a place where there is a majority of Jews, as synagogues and study halls are places frequented exclusively by Jews.
תָּא שְׁמַע: הַמּוֹצֵא מָעוֹת בְּבָתֵּי כְנֵסִיּוֹת וּבְבָתֵּי מִדְרָשׁוֹת, וּבְכׇל מָקוֹם שֶׁהָרַבִּים מְצוּיִין שָׁם – הֲרֵי אֵלּוּ שֶׁלּוֹ, מִפְּנֵי שֶׁהַבְּעָלִים מִתְיָאֲשִׁין מֵהֶן. מַאן שָׁמְעַתְּ לֵיהּ דְּאָזֵיל בָּתַר רוּבָּא? רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן אֶלְעָזָר, שָׁמְעַתְּ מִינַּהּ אֲפִילּוּ בְּרוֹב יִשְׂרָאֵל נָמֵי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara rejects the proof. With what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a case where the coins are scattered and there is no distinguishing mark on them. The Gemara asks: If it is a case where the coins are scattered, why did the baraita establish the case specifically in a place where the multitudes are found? Even in a place where the multitudes are not found, the coins belong to the finder.
הָכָא בְּמַאי עָסְקִינַן? בִּמְפוּזָּרִין. אִי בִּמְפוּזָּרִין מַאי אִרְיָא מָקוֹם שֶׁהָרַבִּים מְצוּיִין שָׁם? אֲפִילּוּ אֵין הָרַבִּים מְצוּיִין שָׁם!
Bava Metzia 24a
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