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Traité Bava Kamma

69a

Étude de Bava Kamma 69a

Étude de la Guémara 69a

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Rava continues: But if the court says to the thief only: You are obligated to give the stolen animal back to its owner, without actually ordering him to pay, and he subsequently slaughtered or sold the animal, he pays the fourfold or fivefold payment. What is the reason for this? Since the court has not issued a definitive ruling in this matter, he is still considered a thief rather than a robber.
״חַיָּיב אַתָּה לִיתֵּן לוֹ״, טָבַח וּמָכַר – מְשַׁלֵּם תַּשְׁלוּמֵי אַרְבָּעָה וַחֲמִשָּׁה. מַאי טַעְמָא? כֵּיוָן דְּלָא פְּסִקָה מִילְּתָא, אַכַּתִּי גַּנָּב הוּא!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara answers: No, this is not a challenge to the ruling of Reish Lakish. It is necessary for the baraita to state the halakha in a case where they say to him only: You are obligated to give the stolen animal back to its owner. Consequently, he remains categorized as a thief.
לָא צְרִיכָא, דְּאָמְרִי לֵיהּ: ״חַיָּיב אַתָּה לִיתֵּן לוֹ״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § The Gemara returns to the matter itself. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: If one stole an item and the owner has not yet despaired of recovering it, neither of them is able to consecrate it. This one, the thief, cannot consecrate it because it does not belong to him, and that one, the owner, cannot consecrate it because it is not in his possession. The Gemara asks: And did Rabbi Yoḥanan actually say this? But doesn’t Rabbi Yoḥanan say: The halakha is invariably in accordance with the ruling of an unattributed mishna, i.e., a mishna that states a halakha without citing it in the name of a particular Sage?
גּוּפָא, אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: גָּזַל וְלֹא נִתְיָיאֲשׁוּ הַבְּעָלִים – שְׁנֵיהֶם אֵינָן יְכוֹלִים לְהַקְדִּישׁ. זֶה לְפִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ שֶׁלּוֹ, וְזֶה לְפִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ בִּרְשׁוּתוֹ. וּמִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן הָכִי? וְהָאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: הֲלָכָה כִּסְתַם מִשְׁנָה;
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And there is a mishna of this kind (Ma’aser Sheni 5:1) that contradicts Rabbi Yoḥanan’s statement, as we learned in a mishna: With regard to a vineyard in its fourth year, they would demarcate it with clods of earth [bikzozot] placed around it on the ground, to alert people that they may not eat or derive any benefit from its grapes without redeeming them. The Gemara interrupts its quotation of the mishna to explain: This particular distinguishing mark of earth is used because a vineyard in its fourth year is like earth: Just as with regard to earth there is permission to derive benefit from it through its cultivation, so too, with this fruit, when it has been redeemed by means of coins, it is likewise permitted to benefit from it.
וּתְנַן: כֶּרֶם רְבָעִי הָיוּ מְצַיְּינִין אוֹתוֹ בִּקְזוּזוֹת אֲדָמָה – סִימָנָא כִּי אֲדָמָה, מָה אֲדָמָה – אִיכָּא הֲנָאָה מִינַּהּ, אַף הַאי נָמֵי כִּי מִפַּרְקָא – שְׁרֵי לְאִיתְהֲנוֹיֵי מִינַּהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara resumes its citation from the mishna: And a grapevine of orla is demarcated with potsherds [ḥarsit] placed around it, to alert people that its grapes may not be eaten nor may any benefit be derived from them at all (see Leviticus 19:23). The Gemara explains: This particular distinguishing mark is used because orla is like potsherds: Just as no benefit is derived from potsherd, so too, no benefit may be derived from this orla.
וְשֶׁל עׇרְלָה בְּחַרְסִית – סִימָנָא כְּחַרְסִית, מָה חַרְסִית שֶׁאֵין הֲנָאָה מִינַּהּ, אַף הַאי דְּלֵית (בֵּיהּ) הֲנָאָה מִינֵּיהּ.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna continues: And an area of graves is demarcated with lime, to notify people that the demarcated area is ritually impure and will impart impurity to those who pass over it. The Gemara explains: The reason this particular distinguishing mark is used is that lime is white, like bones. The mishna further states: And one dissolves the lime in water and pours it out around the gravesite. The Gemara explains: This is performed in order that the lime should be whiter than in its non-dissolved form.
וְשֶׁל קְבָרוֹת בְּסִיד – סִימָנָא דְּחִיוָּר כַּעֲצָמוֹת. וּמְמַחֶה וְשׁוֹפֵךְ כִּי הֵיכִי דְּנִיחַוַּור טְפֵי.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara resumes the citation from the mishna. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said: In what case is this statement, that vineyards of the fourth year and of orla require demarcation, said? During the Sabbatical Year. The Gemara explains: The reason is that all fruit that grows during that year may be taken by anyone (see Leviticus 25:5–6), as in that year all fruit is considered to be ownerless property.
אָמַר רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל: בַּמֶּה דְּבָרִים אֲמוּרִים – בִּשְׁבִיעִית, דְּהֶפְקֵר נִינְהוּ;
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna continues: But during the other years of the Sabbatical cycle, when anyone who takes the grapes of another is guilty of theft, there is no requirement to demarcate these vineyards. This is in accordance with the adage: Feed it to the wicked man and let him die. That is, one is not required to take precautions to protect the wicked from the consequences of their own sins. Here too, there is no obligation to warn a thief that the grapes he is stealing are prohibited.
אֲבָל בִּשְׁאָר שְׁנֵי שָׁבוּעַ – הַלְעִיטֵהוּ לָרָשָׁע וְיָמוּת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The mishna continues: But the pious ones would set aside some coins and say: Anything that was picked from this vine by passersby shall be desacralized onto these coins. These pious ones maintain that the owner can desacralize the grapes despite the fact that they are no longer in his possession. Similarly, contrary to the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan, they would claim that an owner can consecrate a stolen item even though it is no longer in his possession. Since this opinion is cited in the mishna without being attributed to any particular Sage, Rabbi Yoḥanan should have accepted this ruling.
וְהַצְּנוּעִין מַנִּיחִין אֶת הַמָּעוֹת, וְאוֹמְרִים: ״כׇּל הַנִּלְקָט מִזֶּה, מְחוּלָּל עַל הַמָּעוֹת הַלָּלוּ״!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : And if you would say: Who is the tanna that taught this practice of the pious ones in the mishna? It is Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, and Rabbi Yoḥanan did not say his principle that the halakha is always in accordance with an unattributed mishna when it follows an individual opinion; this suggestion does not alleviate the difficulty.
וְכִי תֵּימָא: מַאן תְּנָא צְנוּעִין – רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל, וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן כִּסְתָם יְחִידָאָה לָא אָמַר;
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara explains: But doesn’t Rabba bar bar Ḥana say that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: Wherever Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel taught a statement in the corpus of our Mishna, the halakha is in accordance with his opinion, except for the case of the responsibility of the guarantor (see Bava Batra 173b), and the incident that occurred in the city of Tzaidan (see Gittin 74a), and the dispute with regard to evidence in the final disagreement (see Sanhedrin 31a). Consequently, even if the opinion of the pious ones was cited by Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, Rabbi Yoḥanan should have accepted it as authoritative.
וְהָאָמַר רַבָּה בַּר בַּר חָנָה אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: כׇּל מָקוֹם שֶׁשָּׁנָה רַבָּן שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן גַּמְלִיאֵל בְּמִשְׁנָתֵנוּ – הֲלָכָה כְּמוֹתוֹ, חוּץ מֵעָרֵב וְצַיְדָן וּרְאָיָה אַחֲרוֹנָה!
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Sages say, in explanation of the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan: When quoting the declaration of the pious ones, do not say in the past tense: Anything that was picked from this vine by passersby shall be desacralized onto these coins. Rather, say: Anything that will be picked from this vine shall be desacralized onto these coins. In other words, the desacralizing is performed before the fruit is picked, while it is still in the full possession of the owner of the vine.
אָמְרִי: לָא תֵּימָא ״כׇּל הַנִּלְקָט מִזֶּה״, אֶלָּא אֵימָא ״כָּל הַמִּתְלַקֵּט מִזֶּה״.
Bava Kamma 69a
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