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Traité Avodah Zarah

24b

Étude de Avodah Zarah 24b

Étude de la Guémara 24b

Guémara
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : the incident involving Yitro was after the giving of the Torah, what is there to say? How could they accept offerings from him? Rather, it must be that Yitro purchased the animals from a Jew.
יִתְרוֹ לְאַחַר מַתַּן תּוֹרָה הֲוָה, מַאי אִיכָּא לְמֵימַר? אֶלָּא, יִתְרוֹ מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל זְבַן.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara further states: Come and hear another objection from a verse: “And Saul said: They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the flock and of the herd, to sacrifice unto the Lord your God” (I Samuel 15:15). The verse states explicitly that the Israelites intended to sacrifice animals previously owned by gentiles. The Gemara explains: What is the meaning of the phrase: “The best”? This is referring to the monetary value of the best livestock. The intention was not to sacrifice the animals themselves, but to sell them and use the proceeds of the sale to purchase other animals to sacrifice as offerings.
תָּא שְׁמַע: ״וַיֹּאמֶר שָׁאוּל מֵעֲמָלֵקִי הֱבִיאוּם אֲשֶׁר חָמַל הָעָם עַל מֵיטַב הַצֹּאן וְהַבָּקָר (הַמִּשְׁנִים וְהַכָּרִים וְעַל כׇּל הַצֹּאן) לְמַעַן זְבֹחַ לַה׳ אֱלֹהֶיךָ״! מַאי ״מֵיטַב״? דְּמֵי מֵיטָב.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara inquires: And what is different about the best animals? If the animals were sold for their value, why sell those animals in particular, rather than several inferior-quality animals? The Gemara explains that they did so in order that buyers would jump at the opportunity to buy superior-quality livestock. In other words, it is easier to sell one superior-quality animal than several inferior-quality ones.
וּמַאי שְׁנָא מֵיטָב? כִּי הֵיכִי דְּלִיקְפֹּץ עֲלַיְהוּ זָבֹינָא.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Come and hear another objection from a verse: “And Araunah said unto David: Let my lord the king take and offer up what seems good unto him; behold the cattle for the burnt-offering, and the threshing instruments [morigim] and the accoutrements of the cattle for the wood” (II Samuel 24:22). Apparently, David was willing to accept oxen as offerings from a gentile. Rav Naḥman says: Araunah was a gentile who resided in Eretz Yisrael and observed the seven Noahide mitzvot [ger toshav]. The seven Noahide mitzvot include the prohibition against engaging in bestiality, and therefore Araunah was not suspected of this practice.
תָּא שְׁמַע: ״וַיֹּאמֶר אֲרַוְנָה אֶל דָּוִד יִקַּח וְיַעַל אֲדֹנִי הַמֶּלֶךְ (אֶת) הַטּוֹב בְּעֵינוֹ (וְאֶת) [רְאֵה] הַבָּקָר לָעֹלָה וְהַמֹּרִגִּים וּכְלֵי הַבָּקָר לָעֵצִים״! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן: אֲרַוְנָה גֵּר תּוֹשָׁב הָיָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : Tangentially, the Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the term “morigim,” mentioned in this verse? Ulla said: It is a turbil bed. The Gemara asks: What is a turbil bed? It is a serrated board [kurkesa] used for threshing. Rav Yosef said: What is the verse from which the meaning of morigim is derived? It is derived from the verse: “Behold, I have made you a new threshing board [morag] having sharp teeth; you shall thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shall make the hills as chaff” (Isaiah 41:15).
מַאי מוֹרִגִּים? אָמַר עוּלָּא: מִטָּה שֶׁל טוּרְבִּיל. מַאי מִטָּה שֶׁל טוּרְבִּיל? עִיזָּא דְּקוּרְקְסָא דְּדָיְישָׁן. אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף: מַאי קְרָא? ״הִנֵּה שַׂמְתִּיךְ לְמוֹרַג חָרוּץ חָדָשׁ בַּעַל פִּיפִיּוֹת תָּדוּשׁ הָרִים וְתָדֹק וּגְבָעוֹת כַּמֹּץ תָּשִׂים״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara raises an objection to the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer. After the Philistines returned the Ark of the Covenant to the Israelites upon a cart drawn by cattle, the verse states: “And they sacrificed the cattle as a burnt-offering unto the Lord” (I Samuel 6:14). Evidently, the Jews did not hesitate to sacrifice the Philistines’ animals. The Gemara explains: There, it was a provisional edict issued in extraordinary circumstances, and their actions are not representative of the general halakha.
מֵיתִיבִי: ״וְאֶת הַפָּרוֹת הֶעֱלוּ עֹלָה לַה׳״! הוֹרָאַת שָׁעָה הָיְתָה.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara adds: This also stands to reason, as, if you do not say so, one can raise a further difficulty with this episode: Is there a female burnt-offering? Only males may be sacrificed as burnt-offerings. Since the Jews sacrificed the cows as burnt-offerings, it is clear that they were acting unconventionally due to extenuating circumstances.
הָכִי נָמֵי מִסְתַּבְּרָא, דְּאִי לָא תֵּימָא הָכִי, עוֹלָה נְקֵבָה מִי אִיכָּא?
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara rejects this proof: And what is the difficulty? In other words, the additional problem with the incident, that the animals were female, which is cited as proof that there were extenuating circumstances, is not in fact difficult at all. The Gemara elaborates: Perhaps the cows were offered upon a private altar, and this is in accordance with the opinion of Rav Adda bar Ahava, as Rav Adda bar Ahava says: From where is it derived that a female burnt-offering is fit to be sacrificed upon a private altar? As it is stated: “And Samuel took a milking lamb, and sacrificed it [vaya’alehu] for a burnt-offering unto the Lord” (I Samuel 7:9). The phrase “milking lamb” indicates that it was a female, and yet Samuel sacrificed it upon a private altar.
וּמַאי קוּשְׁיָא? דִּלְמָא בְּבָמַת יָחִיד, וְכִדְרַב אַדָּא בַּר אַהֲבָה, דְּאָמַר רַב אַדָּא בַּר אַהֲבָה: מִנַּיִן לְעוֹלָה נְקֵבָה שֶׁהִיא כְּשֵׁרָה בְּבָמַת יָחִיד? שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר: ״וַיִּקַּח שְׁמוּאֵל טְלֵה חָלָב אֶחָד וַיַּעֲלֵהוּ עוֹלָה״.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara raises a difficulty: But the word vaya’alehu is masculine, which means that the lamb was a male. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak says: Although the word is read in the masculine, it is written in the feminine form, vaya’alah, which teaches that even a female lamb may be sacrificed on a private altar.
״וַיַּעֲלֵהוּ״ — זָכָר מַשְׁמַע! אָמַר רַב נַחְמָן בַּר יִצְחָק: ״וַיַּעֲלֶהָ״ כְּתִיב.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : § After concluding its discussion of the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, the Gemara cites another resolution of the contradiction between the mishna and the baraita. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: There is a clear demarcation in the case of an animal with whom a man engaged in bestiality. If she is less than three years old, she becomes barren as a result of penetration, but if she is already three years old, she does not become barren. Although gentiles are generally suspected of engaging in bestiality, the baraita rules that an animal that is less than three years old may be used as an offering because a gentile will refrain from engaging in bestiality with an animal that may become barren as a result of his actions.
רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: גְּבוּל יֵשׁ לָהּ, פְּחוּתָה מִבַּת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים — נֶעֱקֶרֶת, בַּת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים — אֵינָהּ נֶעֱקֶרֶת.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : They raised all of those refutations from the aforementioned verses which indicate that animals purchased from gentiles may be brought as offerings, and he answered them by claiming that the animals being offered were less than three years old. The Gemara reexamines one of the objections. Come and hear, as the verse states: “And they sacrificed the cattle as a burnt-offering unto the Lord” (I Samuel 6:14). Rabbi Yoḥanan explained that although in that incident the cattle had been owned by Philistines, they were less than three years old, and it was therefore presumed that the Philistines had not engaged in bestiality with them.
אֵיתִיבֵיהּ כֹּל הָנֵי תְּיוּבָתָא, שַׁנִּי לְהוּ: פְּחוּתָה מִבַּת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים. תָּא שְׁמַע: ״וְאֶת הַפָּרוֹת הֶעֱלוּ עֹלָה לַה׳״ — בִּפְחוּתָה מִבַּת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים.
Traduction française en préparation — version anglaise (Steinsaltz) : The Gemara cites a refutation of Rabbi Yoḥanan’s answer: Rav Huna, son of Rabbi Natan, objects to this: If so, then this is also true with regard to the verse: “And they took two nursing cows and tied them to the cart and shut up their calves at home” (I Samuel 6:10). According to Rabbi Yoḥanan, the verse is necessarily referring to cows that are less than three years old.
מַתְקֵיף לַהּ רַב הוּנָא בְּרֵיהּ דְּרַב נָתָן: אִם כֵּן, הַיְינוּ ״וְאֶת בְּנֵיהֶם כָּלוּ בַבָּיִת״ — פְּחוּתָה מִבַּת שָׁלֹשׁ שָׁנִים?
Avodah Zarah 24b
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